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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 2:22AM
#1
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I wonder if the following is legit. A player in my Dawn of Defiance campaign is a noble that struggled throughout the campaign so far and I believe I need to give him a boost in power. For his ninth level I am pondering about giving him Adaptive Talent to exhange his Wealth talent. The way I read Wealth is that it's probably fine to exchange it back and forth, which essentially means that instead of a feat this level he gains another talent. Adaptive Talent
Benefit: Choose one talent that you meet the prerequisites for, from a class you possess. Once per day, after at least 6 hours of rest, you can choose to swap out one of your current talents for the talent you chose for this feat.
The talent you swap out cannot be the prerequisite for any other talent you have. You can swap back to your original talent after at least 6 hours of rest.
He will still get the money but essentially he waste his feat for another talent. That other talent will probably be Done it All that gives him yet another two talents, but that costs forcepoints to be used.
Done it All
When you select this talent, choose two talents (from any non prestige class) that you do not possess but for which you meet the prerequisites. Once per turn on your turn, you can spend a Force Point as a free action to gain the benefits of one of those talents until the end of your next turn.
And for that I will offer him talents which I find powerful but demand a force point to be used. Probably Keep Together and Adept Negotiator.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 4:44AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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Why exactly is your player “struggling?”
My Star Wars Saga Edition RPG contributions:
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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 7:58AM
#3
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Why exactly is your player “struggling?”
The premise was larger than the reality.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 8:38AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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Why exactly is your player “struggling?”
The premise was larger than the reality.
I don't understand.
My Star Wars Saga Edition RPG contributions:
Download my NPC statblocks, 4e style - Many NPC's for use in your campaign. Think of it like Threats of the Galaxy 2!
Combat and Skills Summary - A quick reference tool for combat rules and skill applications
Force Power Summary - A quick reference tool for all force powers
Post your NPC and encounter requests here - and a member of the community will create it for you
Saga Edition RPG resource documents & reference tools:
Compiled files of all resource documents & reference tools - NPCs, character sheets, Dawn of Defiance, Force and lightsaber form power cards, Jedi Counseling articles, NPC statblocks, Saga Index to all feats, talents, species, weapons, etc, Star Wars articles and web enhancements
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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 9:39AM
#5
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Why exactly is your player “struggling?”
The premise was larger than the reality.
I don't understand.
It's a long story. I play with a group who have stayed together for 20 years so I know what friends like and dislike. When I promoted this campaign I promised one player that he would be something like Luc Picard, a mix between a pilot and a leader that impacts a fight through others. However, since I built his character I never managed to get the build to work until now. The player loathe combat and he loathe it even more when he feels he can't use his abilities. Now at level 9 the concept have just begun to work though.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 9:57AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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Does he have Born Leader, Inspire Confidence, Bolster Ally, and all those other booster talents? What about Officer or Crime Lord PrC talents? What about “Leader-teamwork” feats? My favorites are:
-Coordinated Attack
-Coordinated Barrage
-Rapport
-Stand Tall
My Star Wars Saga Edition RPG contributions:
Download my NPC statblocks, 4e style - Many NPC's for use in your campaign. Think of it like Threats of the Galaxy 2!
Combat and Skills Summary - A quick reference tool for combat rules and skill applications
Force Power Summary - A quick reference tool for all force powers
Post your NPC and encounter requests here - and a member of the community will create it for you
Saga Edition RPG resource documents & reference tools:
Compiled files of all resource documents & reference tools - NPCs, character sheets, Dawn of Defiance, Force and lightsaber form power cards, Jedi Counseling articles, NPC statblocks, Saga Index to all feats, talents, species, weapons, etc, Star Wars articles and web enhancements
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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 10:59AM
#7
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When it comes to Adaptive Talent and Wealth I say "HELL NO!"
I see Adaptive Talent more as a "cheat" which would allow you to convert a talent from one class into a talent from a different class without actually needing to take additional levels in that class. For example if you want a "third tier" talent from a 3/4 BAB class that normally means giving up another point of BAB but with Adaptive talent you could "get" that talent through a different class an not lose the BAB.
The other way I see using Adaptive Talent is when you have some of the more specialized talents. These talents could be VERY powerful when they apply but you can run into situations where they are useless for long, and sometimes even known, length of time. As an example the Spacehound talent doesn't do you a bit of good if you know you're going to be stuck on a groundside adventure.
A thing about Adaptive Talent is that I firmly believe that you can only benefit from ONE talent at a time with it. The problem with Wealth (and this can apply to droids reprogramming talents as well) is that you only "gain the benefit" from it when you level up but that benefit then "lasts forever" as you apparently have the credits you could freely use afterward. Just consider the Connections/AdaptiveTalent/Wealth combo which could let you swap in Wealth as you level to earn credits and then swap Wealth for Connection allowing you to spend that Wealth far more effectively/efficiently. If the character lost the gains from Wealth (ie everything there Wealth credits got) when they didn't have it active I could see it but that would be a book keeping nightmare.
I don't see Wealth helping that character anyway as all it does is provide a definite source of credits. The problem with credits is simply that how "valuable" they are is entirely up to the GM. Some will "punish" the character with Wealth by expecting him to pay for everything instead of letting the group having the resources to pay yet other GMs will had out credits and other valuable things like candy on Halloween which also cheapens the character's extra credits.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 11:15AM
#8
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No inspire confidence or bolster ally and he just reached prestige. He is also a talker more than a squad leader, so his abilities capture this. Let me tell you about what I done so far. The greatest problem was that his first two talents, Born Leader and Wealth are passive. They are good, but you do not "use" them actively. He have more active skills now. He also have rank abilities now as well that allowing him to do even more stuff. I do not remember the exact order he got them but he now have; Noble 7/Officer 1/Crime Lord 1 Feats: Adaptable Talent*, Linguist, Point Black Shot**, Rapport, Skill Focus (Pilot), Skill Focus (Knowledge [Galactic Lore])***, Skill Focus (Knowledge [tactics]), Skill Focus (Persuasion), Stand Tall, Vehicular Combat Talents: Born Leader, Lead By Example, Presence (from Crime Lord), Rant, Tough as Nails (from Officer), Wealth*. * Wealth adaptable into "Done it All" for which he can expend 1fp to use Adept Negotiator or Keep Together ** PBS was his own request *** Bonus feat from the background Exile Does he have Born Leader, Inspire Confidence, Bolster Ally, and all those other booster talents? What about Officer or Crime Lord PrC talents?
What about “Leader-teamwork” feats? My favorites are:
-Coordinated Attack
-Coordinated Barrage
-Rapport
-Stand Tall
I optioned out from Coordinated Attack (which is also the prereq for Barrage) since you quickly get good enough to get it done automatically. He do have Rapport though (but he finds it a bit stupid that he assist a shot by shooting). Note however, that many of his feats went to piloting.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 11:26AM
#9
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The other way I see using Adaptive Talent is when you have some of the more specialized talents.
The one he gets from this is Done it all, which gives him two talents from different classes (Keep Together and Adept Negotiator) but that he must spend 1 force point to use.
A thing about Adaptive Talent is that I firmly believe that you can only benefit from ONE talent at a time with it. The problem with Wealth
The problem with credits is simply that how "valuable" they are is entirely up to the GM.
When it comes to feats vs one more talent, I say feats are more valuable, so wasting a feat on something like that is something I could live with. In my campaign wanted to make credits a moot point. They have all the credits they want, the problem is that the players are fugitives that can't spend it, which actually renders wealth a not-so-useful talent most of the time.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 12:47PM
#10
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Done It All is another talent that I sometimes find questionable but do think it is good as you can get a couple of those "once per day/encounter" style talents so you'd have them available in an emergency.
I'll also mention that I believe that Adaptive Talent's restrictions should apply to anything that would use the swapped feet as a requirement. To put it another way "how do you get into Crime Lord without the Wealth talent?" It may be splitting hairs but any talent you get from CrimeLord effectively has that class's requirements as prereqs because without the talent to get into the class you couldn't take a talent from the class.
Now just reading about the character I believe you should do a wholesale retrain/rebuild of him which the DoD campaign actually suggests allowing granted it may have been a couple levels ago. When it comes to things an "active talker" could use I would just point straight at the Adept and Master Negotiator talents; you need to actively use them but talking someone down the CT is a very powerful ability to have. You've already recognized that by selecting Adept Negotiator with DIA except that really does restrict the talent. Three or four levels in Jedi instead of Noble and he'd suddenly have a much better talker. Perhaps you don't believe that would work because that would make the character a "Jedi" but that is bantha poo as levels in Jedi don't make a "Jedi" and he could easily select lightsaber proficiency as the bonus starting feat instead of Force Sensitivity if he doesn't way access to the Force.
Although some concepts feat heavy while others are talent heavy I "rank" talents over feats and both of them over trained skills. While feats can be "more powerful" then some talents I give talents the nod because they are only available to heroes through certain classes while feats can be used by ANYONE without regard to class or heroic status.
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