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1 year ago ::
Mar 02, 2012 - 8:54PM
#1
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Greetings!
I have a question about Imperial ST. I know that in the old 4,5 and 6 episodes they doesn't seem a really hard match no anyone. Always miss, weak armor against ewok stones... XD
I have readed a few info about them via books, novels and wookiepedia. Yes, I know that they are elite of the Empire, better than the grey ones from the army with one of the best armors among the galaxy, but... does this show its potential on theyr NPC stats?
In book and other sources they are deadly soldiers, far away from clones, ARC troopers or the 501, but awesome , or at least more than the "one hit KO" troops that appears on the old movies.
Any idea or comment about that? Anyone uses a different version of ST?
Thanks!
Have you ever tried to smile? If I had to choose one word to describe you, it would be "unorthodox".
Yea - that's pretty much it. Not an insult, of course. :D
Star Wars HEAVY MOD (M&M) Adaptation http://www.mediafire.com/?b2e9e176n9ck9ia
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1 year ago ::
Mar 02, 2012 - 10:57PM
#2
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The basic NH4 Stormtrooper is a useful package. At low levels it armor and Reflex Defense 16 make it a tough nut to crack. At higher level the feat that allow them to automatically aid another on attack can keep them hitting. They also work in squads (CWCG) and in all honesty based on most of the evidence you see they really were NOT all that strong.
Now while I like the basic Stormtroopers I do have stronger, specialized troopers for other uses although I generally don't increase the CL all that much if possible. Perhaps the strongest Stormtrooper I'd consider using "in mass" would be a very basic Elite Trooper build that is NH8/Soldier1/EliteTrooper1. These guys are only CL4 but have a very good BAB and Elite Trooper lets them take a hit without going down immediately.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 03, 2012 - 3:21AM
#3
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Ok so, one more question. I you would't have to consider a balance between ST and players, you will consider that this NH 4 troopers are good enough to match with the stories about them (not the old movies XD) and consider them as the true elite soldiers from the Galactic Empire?
Thank you!
Have you ever tried to smile? If I had to choose one word to describe you, it would be "unorthodox".
Yea - that's pretty much it. Not an insult, of course. :D
Star Wars HEAVY MOD (M&M) Adaptation http://www.mediafire.com/?b2e9e176n9ck9ia
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1 year ago ::
Mar 03, 2012 - 8:43AM
#4
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Compared to the average citizen, the Storm Troopers ARE elite! 4 whole levels, a decent attack bonus, and armor to boot. Stormtroopers have no trouble messing up jawas, but bring them into a forest full of stealthy, trained Ewok hunters, they might get their butts kicked.
Now the thing is that most troopers aren't heroes, plain and simple. You put your average ST up against your average hero, and watch the hero get the drop on the ST. This is because it makes a good story!
There are, of course, exceptions. Timothy Zahn's more recent writings are about the Hand of Judgement, a group of particularly exceptional troopers. Not necessarily because of their skills, though they are indeed skilled, but because of their courage. They have heroic hearts, and that's why it's fun to read hundreds of pages about their exploits.
Of course that still doesn't keep a level 20 Jedi Master from being able to lop some heads off when necessary, but you get the idea, yes?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 03, 2012 - 11:30AM
#5
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Ok so, one more question. I you would't have to consider a balance between ST and players, you will consider that this NH 4 troopers are good enough to match with the stories about them (not the old movies XD) and consider them as the true elite soldiers from the Galactic Empire?
I may reserve the term "true elite soldier" for more veteran (and thus higher leveled) versions of the Stormtrooper but to what is likely the average galactic citizen the Stormtrooper is pretty tough.
Now while I consider the basic CL 1 Stormtrooper to be fine I will often use the CL 2 versions alongside them and when more experienced troops would be encountered. To make things more interesting I'd also consider throwing in Stormtrooper Officer/Elite types with groups of lower level troopers but don't make them any different visually. Your players my cry "FOUL" if they encounter a group of troopers where one is actually a lot better then the others but you don't tell them which one it is, and if they somehow get lucky and drop it immediately you can often just pass those stats off to a different trooper.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 04, 2012 - 11:38AM
#6
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Interesting. Maybe I haven't got the proper "hero concept" that Saga wants to give us. From my point of view a level 1 hero cannot face a "elite army and well trained soldier of the galactic empire". "Hero" its more a "mental state" and a "destiny fact" than skills or level fact. Maybe I doesn't understood the "Saga idea". In our game sessions we use to gave a different focus to characters, they really are like normal people with a incredible spirit that let them made awesome things. A hero begins with all 10 at stats the same way a commoner, but the main difference its character concept. That the hero tries to stop the "bad guy from the empire" punishing an innocent alien child and the commoner just simple "walks without do anything". After a few heroic things "our" hero get awesome stats and becomes a trully galactic hero. So, I like the concept that in his/her "early days" a new "hero" fears confront a single stormstrooper doing a "hand by hand" fight. Not sure if I expressed properly my point of view. And thanks again for your help and points of view 
Have you ever tried to smile? If I had to choose one word to describe you, it would be "unorthodox".
Yea - that's pretty much it. Not an insult, of course. :D
Star Wars HEAVY MOD (M&M) Adaptation http://www.mediafire.com/?b2e9e176n9ck9ia
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1 year ago ::
Mar 04, 2012 - 1:20PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jan 26, 2009
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Interesting.
Maybe I haven't got the proper "hero concept" that Saga wants to give us.
From my point of view a level 1 hero cannot face a "elite army and well trained soldier of the galactic empire".
"Hero" its more a "mental state" and a "destiny fact" than skills or level fact. Maybe I doesn't understood the "Saga idea".
In our game sessions we use to gave a different focus to characters, they really are like normal people with a incredible spirit that let them made awesome things.
A hero begins with all 10 at stats the same way a commoner, but the main difference its character concept. That the hero tries to stop the "bad guy from the empire" punishing an innocent alien child and the commoner just simple "walks without do anything".
After a few heroic things "our" hero get awesome stats and becomes a trully galactic hero.
So, I like the concept that in his/her "early days" a new "hero" fears confront a single stormstrooper doing a "hand by hand" fight.
Not sure if I expressed properly my point of view.
And thanks again for your help and points of view
I really like this view, a lot!!!
I find inspiration in this, my friend, Thank you :D
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1 year ago ::
Mar 04, 2012 - 1:39PM
#8
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You are welcome!  I'm glad to hear that, and I hope that this helps you and other people too. As always say, its only my personal "point of view", but, I like it :P Because of this point of view we adapted our Saga games to a more accurated and flexible leveling and character developement, where we simlply exchange/eliminate classes and level system and use the Mutants & Mastermind d20 systems to level/build up chars (look at my signature). We still use Saga system for the rest. I have to say that we are creating a new (from zero) SW 100% system inspired on series/movies that reflects the pure effect of SW world. Not balanced, not op, just SW. That's the real reason about the ST question. I would like to know so many visions as I can about ST stats and how they are represented un game systems. Again my personal point of view about "hero definition" comes here to play. Well, thanks again
Have you ever tried to smile? If I had to choose one word to describe you, it would be "unorthodox".
Yea - that's pretty much it. Not an insult, of course. :D
Star Wars HEAVY MOD (M&M) Adaptation http://www.mediafire.com/?b2e9e176n9ck9ia
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1 year ago ::
Mar 04, 2012 - 2:32PM
#9
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Interesting.
Maybe I haven't got the proper "hero concept" that Saga wants to give us.Spoiler:
Show
From my point of view a level 1 hero cannot face a "elite army and well trained soldier of the galactic empire".
"Hero" its more a "mental state" and a "destiny fact" than skills or level fact. Maybe I doesn't understood the "Saga idea".
In our game sessions we use to gave a different focus to characters, they really are like normal people with a incredible spirit that let them made awesome things.
A hero begins with all 10 at stats the same way a commoner, but the main difference its character concept. That the hero tries to stop the "bad guy from the empire" punishing an innocent alien child and the commoner just simple "walks without do anything".
After a few heroic things "our" hero get awesome stats and becomes a trully galactic hero.
So, I like the concept that in his/her "early days" a new "hero" fears confront a single stormstrooper doing a "hand by hand" fight.
Not sure if I expressed properly my point of view.
And thanks again for your help and points of view
That's an eye openning bit of information.
Forgive my simplification but it seems to me like you're having characters start with the non-heroic class (SECR 277-278) and having them earn the right to become heroes. It's an interesting idea that could work for some people. I see it as having everyone start in Non-heroic but after a level or three they can "trade in" all those levels and rebuild as a first level heroic character. Most of the time an NH2 or NH3 should easy convert into the first level of a heroic class; any lost BAB or skill modifier can usually be made up for with the heroic stats. I'll just note here that the "average" stats are 10.5 and not 10 which often translates to 11x3,10x3 or a 13,12,11,10,9,8 array; the nonheroic character should get PB 15 for stats which is far below the PB 25 that the book gives heroes. Now all of this is just my attempt to put what I see in SAGA game terms.
To your character with NH1 as its class a basic Stormtrooper IS going to be something to fear. If he shoots at you there is a very good chance you'll die; +4 attack vs REF 10 hits 75% of the time and the average damage of a 3d8 rifle is far more then your hitpoints and likely more then your Damage Threshold. If you shoot back you're likely going to have a hard time hitting (+0 BAB vs REF 16 means hitting just 25% of the time) and while average pistol damage may drop a Stormtrooper (ave 3d6 = 10.5 > 10 hitpoints) it doesn't "kill" the Stormtrooper because you don't overcome its DT.
Now just one more thing that is almost completely unrelated: what does the represent? I'm sorry if I'm being sensitive about this but my posts haven't been completely supportive and in previous threads (not by you) I've been called something akin to a destroyer of creativity. Getting thanked with a smile is certainly nice but getting thanked with a wink triggers a possible sarcasm alarm.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 04, 2012 - 2:46PM
#10
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I love your "trade in" idea concept. With old d20 we use a similiar method. I'm aware that to a lot of people won't like the idea I have about "hero concept", thay they prefer "a rambo-like-type" character from the beginning. Again your are true with your explanation comparing the ST againt de level 1 NH. Above a 75% of possibilities to being killed by a ST. Thats the idea I wanted to share with people/players. I want to them see (at the beginning) a ST as a possible death and a "I have to hide or run away" more than a "look! 35x3 XP Squad and a 600x3 credits utility belt and cool light armor" XDD And about " " it wasn't my intention sorry. I simply want to add a "gentle" smile on my posts, I use to use them. Sorry if it bother you, I will consider next time I refer to you. And thanks Steven for all the good tips you always use to give on my posts. I consider myself a "veteran" from RPG, not an expert or a "master of the universe". Also I have a big lack of knowledges about SW universe (I haven't read so much books) so I deeply thank your opinions and suggestions (and from the other ones too). I love to learn new things and new points of view. Experience and diversity uses to make use wiser. So thanks to you and the other people in the forum that uses to help other ones. Take care!
Have you ever tried to smile? If I had to choose one word to describe you, it would be "unorthodox".
Yea - that's pretty much it. Not an insult, of course. :D
Star Wars HEAVY MOD (M&M) Adaptation http://www.mediafire.com/?b2e9e176n9ck9ia
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