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1 year ago ::
Feb 26, 2012 - 6:18PM
#1
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- The legacy of the 5-7 must live on!
Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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Are there any non-lightsaber/lightweapon based martial arts taught by or for Jedi?
Force-assisted or Force-unassisted both work for me.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 26, 2012 - 6:31PM
#2
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Are you looking more for roleplaying fluff or for game mechanics? The fluff:If you're looking for Jedi proper, then yes Master Anoon Bondara trained heavily in Teräs Käsi and was considered a master. Also consider Darth Maul's fighting style. Tae-Jistu was also apparently a staple in Jedi training. Certain aspects of lightsaber forms were considered to be able to be employed in unarmed combat, even when deprived of your lightsaber. The mechanics:The Martial Arts feats are very common in Jedi builds to reflect their general training in hand-to-hand combat as well as their quick reflexes. The Teräs Käsi Training or Tae-Jistu Training feats would also be appropriate, though really any martial arts feats could suit a Jedi well (depending on your build, of course). If you're looking for Force Traditions and not just Jedi, the Seyugi Dervish and Wardens of the Sky talent trees are presented in the Jedi Academy Training Manual. EDIT: for perusal and general knowledge: starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Broken_Gatestarwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rek%27dulstarwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tae-Jitsustarwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ter%C3%A4s_K%C3%...starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Verdanaian_%22Sl...
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1 year ago ::
Feb 26, 2012 - 6:47PM
#3
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Also, one more thing, there's the convection Force power that adds fire damage specifically to unarmed attacks.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 7:35AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2003
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Are there any non-lightsaber/lightweapon based martial arts taught by or for Jedi?
Force-assisted or Force-unassisted both work for me.
100% agreement with Awaypturwpn.
Also, remember that battlestrike combine with even a very basic unarmed attack creates a potent blow. A level 5 jedi with martial arts I and a good battlestrike roll can easily deal 4d6+ on a single strike. Combined with combat trance and others, even low level investments can pay off a lot in unarmed combat.
My Blog, mostly about D&D. I imagine that Majestic Moose plays a more "A team" type game than most of us. By that I mean he allows his players to make tanks out of a backyard playground set since the players have more "fun" that way.
Actually I much prefer The Losers.Spoiler:
Show
When I and my friends sit down we want a game of heroic fantasy. Rare is the moment when I have cried out in a video game or RPG "that's unrealistic." (Unless there is no jump button. Seriously makes me mad, single handedly ruined the N64 zelda series for me, but that's a digression of a digression.)
I mean, we play games with the force in galaxies far, far away, with supernatural horrors, dragons and demi-gods, alternate cosmologies, etc.
Reality and it's effects hold little sway to what makes a Heroic fantasy game fun IMO.
Just repeat after me:
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You are not how much you've spent on WotC products.
You are not whatever RPG you play.
You are one of tens of thousands of people that spend money on a hobby.
You will not always get what you want
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 4:49PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 13, 2008
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Certain aspects of lightsaber forms were considered to be able to be employed in unarmed combat, even when deprived of your lightsaber.
Even though this is fluff, Sokan not being a true form should work even without a Lightsaber. It is also one of the talents from that tree that have a strong MA feel to it. If your GM won't let that fly, you could always create a 2" glow in the dark lightsaber to hang in your necklace...  If that doesn't work, you could tell him that it has a red blade! 
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1 year ago ::
Mar 12, 2012 - 10:10AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jul 14, 2004
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Even though this is fluff, Sokan not being a true form should work even witout a Lightsaber. It is also one of the talents from that tree that have a strong MA feel to it. If your GM won't let that fly, you could always create a 2" glow in the dark lightsaber to hang in your necklace...
Its actually a little strange to me there was never a vibroknuckle lightsaber equivalent. One that added to unarmed damage and counted as a lightsaber for other talents etc... you'd think that after so many milennia and so many different types of lightsabers there would have been some martial arts oriented force user that would have found it a useful tool.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 3:32AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 13, 2008
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Its actually a little strange to me there was never a vibroknuckle lightsaber equivalent. One that added to unarmed damage and counted as a lightsaber for other talents etc... you'd think that after so many milennia and so many different types of lightsabers there would have been some martial arts oriented force user that would have found it a useful tool.
Maybe, but I have a hard time seeing how it would work...
You could have a Light Saber (Shoto or Light Dagger) built into a gauntlet, pointing forward. But that should most likely just do 2d4 or 2d6 damage, as it is just a Light Saber strapped to your wrist.
You could have 3-4 emitters on said gauntlet, creating a Light Claw! But again that should do at most 2d8 damage, maybe 3d4 or even 3d6 could work as well. But any contraption like this would be difficult to use for Block or Deflect...
If said construction would add to MA damage, and I'm still not convinced it could or should be done, you could have it add one extra MA damage dice and let your attack ignore DR. If that is too powerfull, and it probably is, you could have it add a set number like +3 to damage or bump up the damage dice one step (maximum to d12).
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 4:41AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 14, 2004
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I don't know, I was thinking something more along the lines of: Lightsaber Claw-
Weapon Category: Lightsaber
Size: Tiny
Cost: 7,000
Damage: +4
Stun Damage: -
Weight: .5kg
Type: Energy, Slashing
Availability: Rare
Creation DC: 25
A lightsaber claw is a small casing attached to the outside of a combat glove-like sleeve, with three blade emitters that rise off the back of the hand and create a trio of small 4-5' blades from a single crystal. Lightsaber claws are a tiny weapon favored by Jedi unarmed combat specialists, or other unarmed combat oriented Force users.
A character wearing a Lightsaber Claw deals +4 points of damage on a successful unarmed attack.
Like combat gloves, lightsaber claws are two sizes smaller than their wearer (for example, lightsaber claws designed for a Human are Tiny). Because of how they are worn, lightsaber claws can't be disarmed or dropped. Additionally, while wearing lightsaber claws, your unarmed attacks are considered to be both a normal unarmed attack (treated as a simple weapon) as well as an attack with a lightsaber.
The size and position of the blades make it more difficult to Block and Deflect incoming attacks however, and if the user is not Fighting Defensively the DC of all Block and Deflect attempts is increased by 5.
Lightsaber claws require an energy cell to operate, which is stored within the casing. I figure you could easily apply the Sith Alchemical Weapon template or Sith Alchemy talent to a set of Vibroknuckles. That's already approaching what you have above without any kind of negative to Block or Deflect, though I think you are right and when I was originally thinking of these I did figure on Block and Deflect taking a hit because of it being a glove-claw. I think if you devote a Defensive fighting stance, you should probably be able to use them normally for Block and Deflect and plus that gives them some difference in terms of usage to some of the other advanced lightsabers so they'd be somewhat unique. But they definitely should come with some drawback to it if you are using them to actively fight I think. I did +4 instead of +3 to sort of be the 'step up' from vibroknuckles the way lightsabers increase their damage die generally from vibro weapons. I just think, you've got Force traditions dedicated to unarmed combat, the Jedi and Sith have been around for thousands upon thousands of years, and there's a fair amount of Jedi who have worked on perfecting unarmed combat, there would have been someone somewhere along the way that would have worked on blending and perfecting unarmed combat with a lightsaber weapon that didn't get in the way of it, something that could blend unarmed techniques with Lightsaber Forms or Powers. The Jedi Path even mentions that if your style is unique and sufficient in its complexity it could one day be recognized as a subset of the other Forms, or its own new Form, and all of them originated new somewhere. I also somewhat doubt something like this was specifically forbidden as probably too unbalanced, and was more likely just not thought of by the game designers when they were making the Jedi Academy book.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 15, 2012 - 6:46AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 13, 2008
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I did +4 instead of +3 to sort of be the 'step up' from vibroknuckles the way lightsabers increase their damage die generally from vibro weapons.
Sure, for 7,000 credits I'd buy a +4 to damage, that is fine. However I'm not sure that light-weapons do more damage then vibro-weapons in general. Light Saber and Vibro Sword both do 2d8 damage. Lightsaber, long-handle and Vibrolance do 2d10 damage. However the Vibroblade, double do 2d6/2d6 compared to the Lightsaber, double that do 2d8/2d8 so maybe you are right...
I just think, you've got Force traditions dedicated to unarmed combat, the Jedi and Sith have been around for thousands upon thousands of years, and there's a fair amount of Jedi who have worked on perfecting unarmed combat, there would have been someone somewhere along the way that would have worked on blending and perfecting unarmed combat with a lightsaber weapon that didn't get in the way of it, something that could blend unarmed techniques with Lightsaber Forms or Powers. The Jedi Path even mentions that if your style is unique and sufficient in its complexity it could one day be recognized as a subset of the other Forms, or its own new Form, and all of them originated new somewhere.
I think that this would most definitely not be a Jedi weapon. The Council would say: You want to wear 6 Light Sabers on your gloves so you will always be armed? I sense much anger in this one! Try building one saber for starters, then we will discuss this when you have mastered that one...
Sith on the other hand may develop such a weapon, as it has better offensive then defensive capabilities.
I also somewhat doubt something like this was specifically forbidden as probably too unbalanced, and was more likely just not thought of by the game designers when they were making the Jedi Academy book.
Not forbidden, I would not say that. It is more of a balance thing. Both Light Sabers and MA have things that improve damage and gives bonus to to-hit, stacking both may be too good compared to other options...
You would need play-testing and the professional skills of a Min-Max Munchkin to find out for sure!
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1 year ago ::
Mar 15, 2012 - 10:45AM
#10
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I did +4 instead of +3 to sort of be the 'step up' from vibroknuckles the way lightsabers increase their damage die generally from vibro weapons.
This is wrong. Lightsaber do NOT do more damage (no 'step up') then vibro weapons. If you look at small weapons the vibroblade and short lightsaber both deal 2d6 damage. At medium size you have the force pike and lightsaber each dealing 2d8 damage. Going up to large the great lightsaber and vibro-ax each do 2d10 damage. It sure looks to me like lightsabers do not have a basic damage advantage over vibro-weapons at least when they are striking flesh. I know its "only" one point of damage but having such a 'lightsaber' would still carry many advantages.
Now I hate to do this but have you looked at the cheese that is Irek Ismaren (Lord Nyax) on pg 121 of the JATM? He may not be the "unarmed style" force user you're looking for but how they have him using multiple lightsaber is just plain stupid to my eyes. Cool looking perhaps but completely impractical from any realistic point of view.
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