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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 6:24AM
#51
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2009
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This thread is in serious danger of being railed.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 6:39AM
#52
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2006
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This thread is in serious danger of being railed.
Never! I'll never let that happen!
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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 6:47AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Jan 28, 2006
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Well, every source on the planet states that the Battle of Hoth took place 3 ABY. However, just for argouments' sake.
Re: Echo base setup.
Seriously guys, they built the first Death Star in 19 years.
They built the second, larger and more powerful, Death Star in a fifth of that time.
Echo base was like, building a swingset compared to that...
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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 7:16AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2006
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Well, every source on the planet states that the Battle of Hoth took place 3 ABY. However, just for argouments' sake.
Re: Echo base setup.
Seriously guys, they built the first Death Star in 19 years.
They built the second, larger and more powerful, Death Star in a fifth of that time.
Echo base was like, building a swingset compared to that...
I would argue though that the Rebellion has nothing like the resources the Empire does. I'm sure that with it's unlimited workforce and state-of-the-art machinery the Empire could have constructed Echo Base a lot quicker than the Rebels.
The issue with the Death Stars I have to say does intrigue me though. The first took 19 years to build, but then the second, larger one takes only, what, 4 (although it wasn't finished in RotJ)? I mean, it's conceivable that #2 was started before the first one was destroyed, but even in ANH the Death Star seems to be pretty new (Tarking says that it's about time they tested it). You wouldn't put a lot of resources into building a new copy of something if you weren't sure the original worked, would you?
Lucas put this down at the release of RotS to labour problems and sabotage, but I have a different theory.
You see, people always talked about how unlikely it was that, even after killing the Emperor, the Rebellion would so quickly take power (Robot Chicken even did a sketch about this). And you can't chalk this one up to the EU - if you go by the most recent version of the films, the process seems to be even quicker (the Emperor's statue on Coruscant is shown being toppled concurrently with the celebrations on Endor)!
But anyway, I thought, well, what if these two factors are connected? The Emperor, furious at the destruction of his new toy, but also fearful that the Alliance is more powerful than he thought, pretty much bankrupts the Empire building the ultimate version of the Death Star.
The old Death Star was built in secret, with funds siphoned off from various official funds, but this time Palpatine doesn't care. He just flat out pours all the Empire's resources - and all its manpower - into making the Death Star II. He pretty much bankrupts the Empire (if such a thing were possible) just to get it finished as soon as possible. Hence why Moff Jerjerrod seems so stressed about the building schedule at the beginning of RotJ.
With so much of the Empire's resources diverted into one project, it becomes enough of a target to (pretty much) bring down the whole Empire, which is ironic given that it was intentionally presented as a tempting target as bait for the Rebels.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 7:32AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2004
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WHAT?! Why do you loathe Asajj Ventress? I think she's COOL! What's wrong with her? *ignites twin lightsabers*
The only reason Asajj even exists is that someone decided that Anakin and Obi-Wan had to have lightsaber fights in the 1st Clone Wars cartoon series. Yeah, endless fighting against droids probably is boring, but I'd much rather have seen more Durge-ish or Cad Bane-ish characters come along and fight with the Seppies. Instead we get yet another dark Jedi/wanna-be Sith carbon-copy cookiee-cutter character.
IMO, Asajj is boring, stale and overblown. That doesn't mean I have no respect for anyone who does like her, of course. I haven't got much room to talk though, really - I have, and still defend Jar Jar.
The Putrid Dork Fallacy: "Just because a rule is written one way doesn't mean it can't be interpreted in a completely different way."
RUW - Rules Unclearly Written. For more information, see RAW and RAI.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 9:47AM
#56
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Well, every source on the planet states that the Battle of Hoth took place 3 ABY. However, just for argouments' sake.
Re: Echo base setup.
Seriously guys, they built the first Death Star in 19 years.
They built the second, larger and more powerful, Death Star in a fifth of that time.
Echo base was like, building a swingset compared to that...
I would argue though that the Rebellion has nothing like the resources the Empire does. I'm sure that with it's unlimited workforce and state-of-the-art machinery the Empire could have constructed Echo Base a lot quicker than the Rebels.
The issue with the Death Stars I have to say does intrigue me though. The first took 19 years to build, but then the second, larger one takes only, what, 4 (although it wasn't finished in RotJ)? I mean, it's conceivable that #2 was started before the first one was destroyed, but even in ANH the Death Star seems to be pretty new (Tarking says that it's about time they tested it). You wouldn't put a lot of resources into building a new copy of something if you weren't sure the original worked, would you?
Lucas put this down at the release of RotS to labour problems and sabotage, but I have a different theory.
You see, people always talked about how unlikely it was that, even after killing the Emperor, the Rebellion would so quickly take power (Robot Chicken even did a sketch about this). And you can't chalk this one up to the EU - if you go by the most recent version of the films, the process seems to be even quicker (the Emperor's statue on Coruscant is shown being toppled concurrently with the celebrations on Endor)!
But anyway, I thought, well, what if these two factors are connected? The Emperor, furious at the destruction of his new toy, but also fearful that the Alliance is more powerful than he thought, pretty much bankrupts the Empire building the ultimate version of the Death Star.
The old Death Star was built in secret, with funds siphoned off from various official funds, but this time Palpatine doesn't care. He just flat out pours all the Empire's resources - and all its manpower - into making the Death Star II. He pretty much bankrupts the Empire (if such a thing were possible) just to get it finished as soon as possible. Hence why Moff Jerjerrod seems so stressed about the building schedule at the beginning of RotJ.
With so much of the Empire's resources diverted into one project, it becomes enough of a target to (pretty much) bring down the whole Empire, which is ironic given that it was intentionally presented as a tempting target as bait for the Rebels.
Also, it isn't specified when we see the Emperor and Vader on the bridge of the Star Destroyer looking out at the Death Star. It could have been years after the Empire was created. Also, the second Death Star may have been in production since before the first was destroyed. I mean, there was also a mini Death Star at the Maw, so it's not impossible the frame was a back-up.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 9:53AM
#57
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2006
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Also, it isn't specified when we see the Emperor and Vader on the bridge of the Star Destroyer looking out at the Death Star. It could have been years after the Empire was created.
It's possible, but feels out of place with how the Star Wars films usually work - a complete lack of flashforwards or flashbacks, and everything told in chronological order. Since the last shot of RotS is Obi-Wan giving baby Luke to the Larses, the implication is that all these things are happening within the same timeframe.
Also, the second Death Star may have been in production since before the first was destroyed. I mean, there was also a mini Death Star at the Maw, so it's not impossible the frame was a back-up.
Like I said above, the Death Star II is a lot bigger. It would seem odd to commit to building it before they even knew if the first one worked...
... but then again, this is the Empire we're talking about. Restraint is not something they're know for. 
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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 9:55AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2008
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Why would you even use the word "real" if the other person only considered themself to have one set of parents?
I hardly remember the wording of the scene well enough to remember the emphasis on "real." It's been more then a few years since I've seen the original trilogy. I seem to remember it more like Luke asking "Leia, what do you remember of your mother?" and then after her answer he says "I have no recollection of my mother..." but like I said it's been a very long time.
Otherwise it might as well have been:
"Leia, did you ever have a cat?"
"Yes, Fluffy. She was a wonderful cat."
"That's a nice. I never had a cat. Anyway, we're brother and sister, and Darth Vader's our Dad. I'm off to fight him. See ya later!"
I don't know if it was really that off topic. He doesn't know anything about what happened to their mother. He knows their father now but that's it. I always saw it more like he was trying to fish for information from her, hoping that she had some connection to their mother. I'm not even sure he knew Lady Organa wasn't his mother (or that his mother wasn't on Alderan with the Organas) as I'm unaware that he learns anything at all about the subject during the movies themselves. I mean he can assume she was also placed with a different family like he was but he has no way to know for sure that I'm aware of.
As for the Death Star II, I also thought it was that the second was being built before the first one was destroyed. Why build one when you can build two?
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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 10:24AM
#59
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2009
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I don't know if it was really that off topic. He doesn't know anything about what happened to their mother. He knows their father now but that's it. I always saw it more like he was trying to fish for information from her, hoping that she had some connection to their mother. I'm not even sure he knew Lady Organa wasn't his mother (or that his mother wasn't on Alderan with the Organas) as I'm unaware that he learns anything at all about the subject during the movies themselves. I mean he can assume she was also placed with a different family like he was but he has no way to know for sure that I'm aware of.
Luke could have reasonably concluded that Lady Organa was not his mother, since Darth Vader would have gone after her and Leia long before the plans to the Death Star were stolen. And since it is common knowledge that Leia is considered to be the Organa's child, there is reason for Luke to believe that similar to his early life, she grew up away from either of their parents.
As for the Death Star II, I also thought it was that the second was being built before the first one was destroyed. Why build one when you can build two?
Because I want three. After all, a blackhole ate my Death Star.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2011 - 10:47AM
#60
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So my explanation of "isolated planets take a long time to find, and massive bases take a long time to construct" makes no sense? "Hoth was discovered the day after Yavin and Echo Base pops up like a tent" is a more rational scenario?
Okay let me repeat. I find it perfectly reasonable to assume that the rebels had already scouted other potential base locations, and even done some of the preliminary work in preparation for using them if need be, long before they were forced to abandon the Yavin base.
This in no way, shape or form resembles the "No the movies don't specifically say that..." examples that you threw out.
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