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Switch to Forum Live View The Great Mess Hall Food Fight
2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 12:13PM #1
Jedi_Comedian
Date Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 1,605

OK, so here's an idea for a thread:

Do you ever get into a discussion about something on these boards with someone, and you find it really interesting, but you feel bad about carrying it on because you're derailing the OP's thread?

Cause I find that all the time. Especially when something starts off as a rules discussion and goes off into finer points of Star Wars lore.

So I thought, why not make a thread that can never go off topic, because there is no topic? A place to just enjoy debating all anything and everything tangentially related to Star Wars and the Star Wars roleplaying game.

Think of something you want to raise? Raise it! Got a good discussion going in another thread that's off-topic? Bring it over here!

There's only one rule - no criticism of people, only criticism of statements. Attack the argument, not the man (or woman, as the case may be).

Any questions?

Josh Cheesman - journalist and Star Wars fan.

Visit the YBtC Hall of Fame to see the winners of the Praxeum's regular You Build the Character competitions.

Need roleplaying stats for a miniature you're using in your Star Wars game? Try the [Saga] Star Wars Miniatures RPG Stats thread.

Check out the The Great Mess Hall Food Fight, the Star Wars thread that can't be derailed. Any and all discussions welcome!

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 1:10PM #2
RobShanti
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 4,921
I LOVE this idea.  Yeah, I'll start it off...

What in blazes is the story now with Mandalorians?

Are they pacifists, or a warrior culture?
Is Mandalore a polished cubic ecumenopolis of law and order, or a frontier farm world?
Are the stereotypical armored Mandalorian warriors your average Mando or Death Watch?
Was Jango Fett Mandalore or just "some guy who managed to acquire a set of Mandalorian armor"?
Traviss!  Clone Wars Animated Series!  Traviss!  Clone Wars Animated Series!  AAAHHHHHH!

The guys at Fandom Comics made some attempt to reconcile some of these issues in their Bounty Hunters chapter, under the Fenn Shysa write-up, but has there been any attempt by Leland Chee or anyone else at Lucas Film/Arts to canonically reconcile the recent obliteration of EU Mandalorian history by The Clone Wars Animated Series beyond just "Well,  George wanted it that way"?  I've looked around and found nothing, and it's bugging me because I'm running a Dark Times game involving Mandalorian PCs, and I need answers!
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 1:32PM #3
Jedi_Comedian
Date Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 1,605
Well, I don't know officially, but here's what I think:

Why not all of those things?

I mean, we're talking about a multi-planetary, multi-species culture that spans thousands of years. Sometimes the warrior thing was dominant, sometimes the pacifists took over as a generational reaction to the warrior thing.

Maybe the polished cubic ecumenopolis is the home of the peaceful Mandos, and the militant ones go and live on frontier farms because they hate the whole lawful vibe.

Maybe the pacifists hated the fact that everyone else in the galaxy saw the armoured fighter as the "typical" Mandalorian so much that they put a lot of work into outlawing that aspect of their culture.

But I would say that Jango was definitely Mandalore... of the "True Mandalorians", the faction split off to become mercenaries when the pacifists started running things. When he became a notorious bounty hunter the Mandalorian government made sure to put out the word that he wasn't really a Mando.

So yeah, I say, in this instance, bring on the inconsistencies. It's finally given the Mandalorians some depth, and actually made their history richer.
Josh Cheesman - journalist and Star Wars fan.

Visit the YBtC Hall of Fame to see the winners of the Praxeum's regular You Build the Character competitions.

Need roleplaying stats for a miniature you're using in your Star Wars game? Try the [Saga] Star Wars Miniatures RPG Stats thread.

Check out the The Great Mess Hall Food Fight, the Star Wars thread that can't be derailed. Any and all discussions welcome!

I never listen to the Order 66 Podcast.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 1:52PM #4
RobShanti
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 4,921
Since this thread, by its very purpose, can't be de-railed, I'm going to use your response, JC, as a springboard off into another direction (and it's only been a few minutes -- try to keep up, people!) -- so we're seeing a trend in Star Wars moving away from the single-ecology worlds of space-pulp convention to more realistic (or at least more sci-fi convention) worlds with multiple cultures...Naboo, Utapau, and now Mandalore.

C'mon...that's gotta get the goat of some of you prequel / animated series haters. 
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"ALL-PURPOSE" SAGA EDITION SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for NPCs, droids, ships/vehicles, weapons/gear, etc.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 2:06PM #5
Raul_Torin
Date Joined: Oct 10, 2007
Posts: 4,879

Apr 6, 2011 -- 1:10PM, RobShanti wrote:

What in blazes is the story now with Mandalorians?


I say that the Clone Wars series version goes.  It is the most recent (newer typically overrules), it is considered a higher-level source by the holocron system (T-level, not C like all other Mando sources), and Lucas is involved in the cartoon. 

Apr 6, 2011 -- 1:32PM, Jedi_Comedian wrote:

So yeah, I say, in this instance, bring on the inconsistencies. It's finally given the Mandalorians some depth, and actually made their history richer.


If it was presented this way, as two parts of the same group, maybe this would work.  Otherwise inconsistencies like this don't add depth to Star Wars, they just make the EU even less sensical.  What you have is a fandom explaination, which doesn't really mean much.  Unless you can get future authors to play by that, it is worthless.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 2:15PM #6
Jedi_Comedian
Date Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 1,605

Apr 6, 2011 -- 2:06PM, Raul_Torin wrote:

If it was presented this way, as two parts of the same group, maybe this would work.  Otherwise inconsistencies like this don't add depth to Star Wars, they just make the EU even less sensical.  What you have is a fandom explaination, which doesn't really mean much.  Unless you can get future authors to play by that, it is worthless.


Hence my adding of "in this instance".

Generally, Clone Wars creates enough continuity headaches that I firmly belive eit should be spun off as a separate continuity (Even Piell is one example that springs to mind).

Josh Cheesman - journalist and Star Wars fan.

Visit the YBtC Hall of Fame to see the winners of the Praxeum's regular You Build the Character competitions.

Need roleplaying stats for a miniature you're using in your Star Wars game? Try the [Saga] Star Wars Miniatures RPG Stats thread.

Check out the The Great Mess Hall Food Fight, the Star Wars thread that can't be derailed. Any and all discussions welcome!

I never listen to the Order 66 Podcast.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 2:26PM #7
fairytalejedi
Date Joined: Mar 2, 2002
Posts: 1,689
As far as the Mandalorians of the cartoon go... Whatever happened to death watch? For that matter, what happened to Aurra Sing and Slave I? (And btw, why was it ever called Slave I in the first place? Usually you start numbering things with the second one...)

Bottom line, Season 2 left us with a lot of good potential stuff for Season 3, none of which actually got used.

But anyway, I'd say Jango was definitely not Mandalore. Going back to the old days, Boba Fett was described as a bounty hunter who wore armor similar to that worn by a group of evil warriors who were defeated by the Jedi during the Clone Wars. The evil warriors would presumably be the Mandalorians (or at least the death watch faction). Boba and by extension Jango were never affiliated with them, they just used similar tech. In that sense, the new cartoon continuity is simply a better reflection of Lucas' original idea than the standard EU stuff.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 2:40PM #8
Jedi_Comedian
Date Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 1,605

Apr 6, 2011 -- 2:26PM, fairytalejedi wrote:

But anyway, I'd say Jango was definitely not Mandalore. Going back to the old days, Boba Fett was described as a bounty hunter who wore armor similar to that worn by a group of evil warriors who were defeated by the Jedi during the Clone Wars. The evil warriors would presumably be the Mandalorians (or at least the death watch faction). Boba and by extension Jango were never affiliated with them, they just used similar tech. In that sense, the new cartoon continuity is simply a better reflection of Lucas' original idea than the standard EU stuff.


Rob specifically said that he was looking for a Lucasfilm explanation of how all the canonical EU material fits together. The Open Season comics showed Jango was Mandalore, and we never had proof that the Mandalorians in Clone Wars weren't lying, so he probably was. Just not of the entire Mandalorian nation.

Josh Cheesman - journalist and Star Wars fan.

Visit the YBtC Hall of Fame to see the winners of the Praxeum's regular You Build the Character competitions.

Need roleplaying stats for a miniature you're using in your Star Wars game? Try the [Saga] Star Wars Miniatures RPG Stats thread.

Check out the The Great Mess Hall Food Fight, the Star Wars thread that can't be derailed. Any and all discussions welcome!

I never listen to the Order 66 Podcast.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 2:41PM #9
Murkglow
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 1,794

Apr 6, 2011 -- 2:26PM, fairytalejedi wrote:

(And btw, why was it ever called Slave I in the first place? Usually you start numbering things with the second one...)




They also number when you make/buy batches.  So if they had 3 ships all at once they'd name then Slave I, Slave II, and Slave III.  I don't know if that's the case here of course but it is one way it could happen.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2011 - 2:49PM #10
fairytalejedi
Date Joined: Mar 2, 2002
Posts: 1,689

Apr 6, 2011 -- 2:40PM, Jedi_Comedian wrote:

canonical EU material




Contradiction in terms. Don't get me started!

Now I'm going to go look for an old hyperspace travel time debate that I can rehash...

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