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3 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2010 - 5:13AM
#1
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I've been talking to some Star Wars GMs and come across some house rules that seem pretty popular. What house rules do you guys use and recommend? So far I've been going with a talent for every heroic level (with a bit of a *wink wink nudge nudge this lets you take some of the RP flavour ones instead of the efficiency ones) and it seems good as it also nerfs multiclassing in a way
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3 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2010 - 5:39AM
#2
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- You do not get double your Strength bonus to damage rolls when using a double-weapon as a double-weapon.
- There are no die steps for unarmed damage over d12.
- The Intimidate application of the Persuasion skill is a fear-based effect.
- The Jedi Master Serenity class feature may only be used once per encounter.
- The Coordinated Barrage feat cannot be applied to weapon batteries or fighter groups acting as a weapon battery.
- You and your two targets of Grazing Shot must be in a straight line, and your ranged attack may not be an area attack.
- For the Recurring Success feat, you may only select feats or talents that you already possess.
- The Sadistic Strike feat is mind-affecting, and only affects your target's allies.
- When using the overwhelming assault starship maneuver, the penalty you take cannot exceed your base attack bonus.
- The drain energy Force power may be rebuked by the person attending the item to be drained. If this power is rebuked and directed back, the rebuker may choose any item attended to by the original caster to as a target of the power.
- Using the Force grip power against a sentient being makes it a [dark side] power.
- The move object damage based on object size is limited to the size of the object hurled.
- The sever Force power does not negate a PC's ability to spend a force point to save their own life in event that they have damage dealt to them that exceeds their remaining hit points and their damage threshold.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2010 - 7:45AM
#3
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Those are great! Isn't the first one an actual rule though?
My game will be very Force light but that Intimidate one is excellent
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3 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2010 - 10:03AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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Interesting house rules. May I ask a couple questions?
- There are no die steps for unarmed damage over d12.
What does d12 + a die step increase normally come out to?
- For the Recurring Success feat, you may only select feats or talents that you already possess.
I thought that was the rule? My game will be very Force light but that Intimidate one is excellent
Many GM's do not like the Intimidate application of the Persuasion skill because it's too powerful and can be abused; it lets you chase an opponent from the encounter. That opponent must now run away in terror. Many GM's will refrain from using that application against the players, because it's no fun for the player, who spends the rest of the encounter running away. Some GM's get irritated when the players use this on the GM's NPC's.
As an alternative, look into the Intimidator feat from Unknown Regions. "When you successfully use the Intimidate application of the Persuasion skill against a creature, instead of the normal results, the creature takes a -5 penalty to all skill checks (including Use the Force) and a -2 penalty to all attacks when you are with in its line of sight, until the end of your next turn." I love this feat as an alternative to the normal Intimidate application.
My Star Wars Saga Edition RPG contributions:
Download my NPC statblocks, 4e style - Many NPC's for use in your campaign. Think of it like Threats of the Galaxy 2!
Combat and Skills Summary - A quick reference tool for combat rules and skill applications
Force Power Summary - A quick reference tool for all force powers
Post your NPC and encounter requests here - and a member of the community will create it for you
Saga Edition RPG resource documents & reference tools:
Compiled files of all resource documents & reference tools - NPCs, character sheets, Dawn of Defiance, Force and lightsaber form power cards, Jedi Counseling articles, NPC statblocks, Saga Index to all feats, talents, species, weapons, etc, Star Wars articles and web enhancements
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3 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2010 - 2:46PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2006
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My house rules:
- Skill Attack Modifier. I've adopted Raul Torin's skill attack modifier house rule to fix the math for skills vs defenses. It's the one most glaring problem remaining in Saga's rules, especially when someone has Skill Focus. If you want the details, see the spoiler block at the bottom of this post.
- Prone. You can crawl at half speed while prone and adjacent enemies do not take the penalty to attack you with a ranged weapon. (Based on 4e's prone rules, since Saga's just aren't very clear.)
- Attacks of Opportunity. You can only make an AoO with a melee weapon, not a ranged weapon. [I mainly adopted this rule because my group's more used to the D&D rules so they're always forgetting that in Saga you can make AoO with certain ranged weapons.]
- Area Attacks. Replace the "10" with "Reflex 10". I've also clarified how grenades work in relation to the area attack rules because the RAW makes no sense whatsoever.
- Multiclassing. I actually like Saga's free-and-easy multiclassing, so rather than nerfing it, I've given it a boost: You can select Skill Training as your multiclass feat instead of one of the regular class starting feats as long as your new trained skill is a class skill for your new class.
- Starting Feats. I'm happy to let people swap out certain class starting feats at 1st level (so someone starting in Jedi who wants to play a Zeison Sha warrior could trade WP [lightsabers] for EWP [discblade]). I don't allow WP (simple) or conditional starting feats (such as Linguist and Shake It Off) to be swapped out.
- Hit Points. Roll twice and keep the better result or take fixed hit points (equal to fixed amount for DoD RPGA campaign). Can choose at each level up.
- Destiny Points. No auto-crit feature.
- Diagonal Movement. Diagonals cost 1:1 as in D&D 4e.
- Falling Unconscious. 4d4 rounds instead of 1 minutes. The average is still 10 rounds, but it provides a bit of uncertainty and means that someone could potentially get back into the fight sooner (as well as potentially die sooner).
- Retraining. I allow characters to retrain one talent, feat, or Force ability per level. At certain points in the campaign, I may allow a more extensive retrain.
- Talents. Knack and Lucky Shot are both once per encounter rather than once per day.
- Force powers. The damage caused by move object is keyed to the object's size, no exceptions.
- Vehicles. Vehicles are powered by sustainable/renewable fuel sources, so no need to track/pay for fuel. Also, each vehicle only requires one set of "papers" of a level equivalent to the most restricted item installed (so if you have a military-grade weapon, you'll need military-grade papers).
- Ammunition. Unless it's a weapon with very low ammo (like a hold-out blaster or a 50-shot blaster rifle being used on autofire), I don't require ammo to be tracked. It's not worth the hassle. Although I suppose if the characters became stranded on a backward planet with no means of getting more ammo and no way to recharge their power packs and energy cells, I would probably require they keep track of it.
- Optional Rules. I'm also using several official optional rules: Atonement (FUCG), Critical Care (JC 114; DoD 8), and Edge of Exhaustion (JC 114). I'm thinking of adopting the maiming rule (Official Errata Thread).
There are a couple of other things, but they're mostly campaign-specific changes (I'm running Dawn of Defiance in the default Dark Times era, so military-grade equipment is hard to obtain legally, there is no Jedi Order, lightsabers are illegal, certain species are not available, etc). I'm also using 28 point buy (23 for droids). Etc.
skill attacks
Show
The "skill attack modifier" applies only to the following skill uses:
Deception
- create a diversion to hide
- convey deceptive information
Persuasion
- improve an NPC's attitude
- intimidate an NPC
Use the Force
- use Force powers
- use some Force talents
To determine someone's skill attack modifier, use the following formula:
character level + ability modifier + miscellaneous modifiers
Character level: They get to add their full character level to the modifier (which is essentially like giving them full BAB with a weapon), but they do not get to add +5 for being trained or for having Skill Focus.
Ability modifier: This is always going to be Charisma, but it's probably a good idea to leave it open anyway. For instance, I have a player who took a talent called Fade Out (Galaxy of Intrigue) that lets him substitute his Stealth modifier for his Deception modifier when creating a diversion to hide, so in that instance, he's using his Dex modifier instead of his Charisma modifier.
Miscellaneous modifiers: These include a -5 penalty for not being trained in the skill (just like you take a -5 penalty for not being proficient with a particular weapon) and a +2 bonus for having Skill Focus in the skill (this makes Skill Focus more like Weapon Focus, but it provides a higher benefit because there aren't as many things that you can add to a skill modifier as there are with weapon modifiers). There are a few other modifiers that you could probably add in here, but they'll be dependent on a specific feat or talent or something and I haven't had time to go through every single one of them. Generally, though, an ability that adds a bonus to a skill would add a smaller bonus to the skill attack modifier.
NB. This skill attack modifier does not replace the regular skill modifier. It's in addition to it. So when you are using a Force power, you would make one attack roll, add your Use the Force skill attack modifier, and compare it to the relevant defense score of your target. If you hit, then you take the same roll result but add your regular Use the Force skill check modifier to determine the Force power's effect.
To give you an idea of how this works, let's say we have a Jedi with Skill Focus (Use the Force) and Charisma 16 (+3). We'll assume that he doesn't ever increase his Charisma score as he levels up.
At 1st level, his regular skill check modifier is going to be +13 (5 [trained] + 5 [skill focus] + 3 [ability modifier] + 0 [half level]). His skill attack modifier would only be +6 (1 [full level] + 3 [ability modifier] + 2 [skill focus]).
At 5th level, his skill check would be +15, whereas his skill attack would be +10.
At 10th level, these would be +18 and +15 respectively.
At 15th level, these would be +20 and +20 respectively.
At 20th level, these would be +23 and +25 respectively.
As you can see, the regular skill check starts out quite high at 1st, but doesn't get a whole lot higher by 20th level, while defense scores will have far outstripped it, meaning that a Force user is proportionately more powerful at low level than at high level. That doesn't make a lot of sense. However, with the skill attack modifier, it starts out fairly low (but comparable to an attack modifier for a conventional weapon) and progresses to the point where it's actually slightly higher by 20th level, thus making it so the Force user starts out proportionately weak at low level and becomes proportionately more powerful at high level.
To give credit where it's due, I got this house rule from Raul Torin.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2010 - 7:15PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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Good house rules, puk.
My house rules:
- Skill Attack Modifier. I've adopted Raul Torin's skill attack modifier house rule to fix the math for skills vs defenses. It's the one most glaring problem remaining in Saga's rules, especially when someone has Skill Focus. If you want the details, see the spoiler block at the bottom of this post.
As an alternative, you change Skill Focus to: Instead of gaining +5 competance bonus, you gain a competance bonus equal to your character level, to a maximum of +5.
- Prone. You can crawl at half speed while prone and adjacent enemies do not take the penalty to attack you with a ranged weapon. (Based on 4e's prone rules, since Saga's just aren't very clear.)
I like it. Also like the idea of aiming to ignore -5 penalty for ranged attack against a prone target.
- Starting Feats. I'm happy to let people swap out certain class starting feats at 1st level (so someone starting in Jedi who wants to play a Zeison Sha warrior could trade WP [lightsabers] for EWP [discblade]). I don't allow WP (simple) or conditional starting feats (such as Linguist and Shake It Off) to be swapped out.
I like it. I allow Soldier to swap out Weapon Proficiency (rifles) for Weapon Proficiency (Advanced Melee). Also, Soldier may begin with Martial Arts I instead of Armor Proficiency (Light and Medium).
My Star Wars Saga Edition RPG contributions:
Download my NPC statblocks, 4e style - Many NPC's for use in your campaign. Think of it like Threats of the Galaxy 2!
Combat and Skills Summary - A quick reference tool for combat rules and skill applications
Force Power Summary - A quick reference tool for all force powers
Post your NPC and encounter requests here - and a member of the community will create it for you
Saga Edition RPG resource documents & reference tools:
Compiled files of all resource documents & reference tools - NPCs, character sheets, Dawn of Defiance, Force and lightsaber form power cards, Jedi Counseling articles, NPC statblocks, Saga Index to all feats, talents, species, weapons, etc, Star Wars articles and web enhancements
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3 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2010 - 7:44PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2006
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As an alternative, you change Skill Focus to: Instead of gaining +5 competance bonus, you gain a competance bonus equal to your character level, to a maximum of +5.
You can, although I personally don't like that option. I don't like the scaling bonus, and I don't think it fixes the math issue as well as Raul's houserules does.
I like it. Also like the idea of aiming to ignore -5 penalty for ranged attack against a prone target.
I did at first, too, as you're probably aware, but it was pointed out to me that "aiming" is something of a misnomer, so I decided not to adopt that change.
I like it. I allow Soldier to swap out Weapon Proficiency (rifles) for Weapon Proficiency (Advanced Melee). Also, Soldier may begin with Martial Arts I instead of Armor Proficiency (Light and Medium).
Yes. I would allow those swaps as well. My rule is a little more open-ended though, just providing a few examples rather than an exhaustive list of what can be swapped out for what.
Because of the discussion in the Hidden Movement thread, I'm now considering making some changes to Stealth: but I'm not sure if I should just clarify the text of the Hidden Movement talent or leave it as is and change the rules for sneaking so that you can only stealth at half-speed. I think I shall consult my group on this one.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2010 - 7:17AM
#8
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Question about the skill attack, can you point me to the thread where Raul created that rule? I have been looking for it for awhile now.
Also, for the Force skill attacks, is that bonus used only when targeting an opponents defense score? For instance, Mind Trick vs Will Defense, you would use the character's UtF Skill Attack bonus, right?
Oh no, my young Jedi. You will find that it is you who are mistaken, about a great many things.
Winner of the Winner of You Build the Character #34: Padme Amidala
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3 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2010 - 8:15AM
#9
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- Here be Dragons next 100 km
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I use a few house rules for dogfighting, though I haven't had much chance to use them in-game yet.
- Colossal (Transport) vehicles without Combat Thrusters may be engaged in a dogfight, and may perform any normal application of the Dogfight rules once engaged. The only thing they can't do is engage another vehicle in a dogfight.
- The pilot of a vehicle who has made a successful Dogfight check to attack on his turn may also move the dogfight as a move action. The dogfight moves at half the speed of the slowest craft.
- A vehicle may disengage from a dogfight even if the pilot did not succeed on his opposed check to do so. However, each opposing pilot whose check he failed to beat may make a free attack against the escaping vehicle with one of their vehicle's pilot-operated weapons.
The idea is basically to make the dogfighting rules for space transports a little more sensible, and to make dogfighting less static, so that it doesn't pin down the combatants to one spot on the battlefield.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2010 - 12:27PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2006
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Question about the skill attack, can you point me to the thread where Raul created that rule? I have been looking for it for awhile now.
You'll have to ask him for the original thread. He explained it to me in someone else's thread and via PM.
Also, for the Force skill attacks, is that bonus used only when targeting an opponents defense score? For instance, Mind Trick vs Will Defense, you would use the character's UtF Skill Attack bonus, right?
Correct. "Attack" powers with no scaling effects (such as mind trick and Force slam) would just use the skill attack modifier. "Attack" powers with scaling effects (such as move object and Force grip) would use both: the attack modifier for the "attack" and the skill modifier for the effect. Self-targeting "utility" powers (such as battle strike and surge) would just use the skill modifier.
To facilitate the use of this house rule, I have made sure that the attack modifier is clearly marked on both my players' character sheets and their Force power cards.
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