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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 6:09AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2006
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Hi all,
Looks like I'm going to have six players in my Dawn of Defiance campaign. What sort of changes will I need to make to take into account the extra muscle on the PCs' side? By how much will I need to beef up the encounters and so on?
I'm not going to be using XP. I'm just going to have everyone level up halfway through each adventure and again near or at the end ... so my only real concern is keeping things challenging. With extra PCs, I don't want the encounters to all be strolls through the park.
Thanks in advance,
Jonathan
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 11:17AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2007
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I also have 6 PCs in my DoD campaign. I have been operating on the idea that DoD was written with 4 PCs in mind (can't remember where I read that -- a long time ago). Since there are 50% more PCs than expected, my solution has been to increase the number of enemies by 50% also. It's easy to do when there's only 1 type of enemy. So if there were 6 stormtroopers in an encounter, I'd make it 9. As an example of a mixed CL encounter: (Spoiler alert!) Spoiler:
Show
At the end of DoD4, the PCs face Draco, a lower level Inquisitor (Raik), and around 6 shadow troopers. Obviously, you can't just increase the number of enemies by 50% because they're all different CLs, and there's only 1 Draco and 1 Raik. Having 1.5 Draco's isn't really an option. 
So I made it:
Draco
Raik
Another low-level Inquisitor, with the same CL as Raik
9 shadow troopers.
So it's a little less than 50% more enemies, but I erred on the side of caution. To make up for it, I decided to run the bad guys intelligently. I figured it would only make sense to have the dark Force users try to throw the PCs into the chasms using MO. I allowed the PCs to burn a DP to avoid the MO attack.
It turned out to be plenty* difficult.
*It should be noted that I don't allow the PCs to use Force Powers to harm (cause hp loss) to another living being (or else they get DSPs). So this encounter was probably harder for them than for parties whose GMs play things "normally". (But I don't want to de-rail this thread with that hot topic...) This method of just increasing the number of enemies by 50% has worked very well for our group. It is more reliable than trying to increase the CLs of the statted enemies -- that method has more unpredictable results IMO.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 11:29AM
#3
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At times I think the DoD was already written for more than four players and would try things unchanged. If things are too easy then I'd simply follow the advice already given by old_benn and start increasing the number of mooks as appropriate. As for the higher level single opponents you may want to give them another level but I'd probably give them an extra lacky to keep a couple PCs busy.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 1:37PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2006
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Thanks guys. I agree that adding more mooks is often better than trying to beef up the main NPCs. I just wasn't really sure of the numbers. I'll probably rebuild a few of the main NPCs anyway (partly because some of them aren't built very well and partly to give them some options from the newer books)
I think what I'll probably do is just play it by ear, at least for the first module or two. Some encounters are obviously supposed to be easy, but if the ones that are supposed to be challenging look like they're going to be too easy, then I'll have reinforcements show up or something (whatever's most plausible).
Hopefully after the first module or two, I should have a better idea of what I need to do to make the challenging encounters stay challenging.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 10, 2010 - 8:57AM
#5
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I had 6 for a while, and the encounters became much too easy.
I don't know if it's the best idea, but my rule of thumb for adapting was to preserve the ratio of mooks and bosses to players. So if there were 4 mooks and 2 bosses for 4 players, I beefed it to 6 mooks and 3 bosses for 6 players. This seemed to preserve the "sweet spot" in most cases, as long as I didn't use them all to gang up on a single player.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 10, 2010 - 10:56AM
#6
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I think what I'll probably do is just play it by ear, at least for the first module or two. Some encounters are obviously supposed to be easy, but if the ones that are supposed to be challenging look like they're going to be too easy, then I'll have reinforcements show up or something (whatever's most plausible).
I'd always figure it is easier to bring in reinforcements to boost the difficulty of an encounter that you made too easy than it is to legitimately tone down an encounter that is too difficult. In an era where instant communications and high speed transport should be expected having help show up should be expected.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 10, 2010 - 2:12PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2006
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I had 6 for a while, and the encounters became much too easy.
I don't know if it's the best idea, but my rule of thumb for adapting was to preserve the ratio of mooks and bosses to players. So if there were 4 mooks and 2 bosses for 4 players, I beefed it to 6 mooks and 3 bosses for 6 players. This seemed to preserve the "sweet spot" in most cases, as long as I didn't use them all to gang up on a single player.
That sounds roughly the same as what old_benn was saying about increasing the NPCs by 50%.
Thanks guys. That gives me a good idea of what to shoot for in terms of keeping the challenging encounters challenging.
I'd always figure it is easier to bring in reinforcements to boost the difficulty of an encounter that you made too easy than it is to legitimately tone down an encounter that is too difficult.
Exactly!
In an era where instant communications and high speed transport should be expected having help show up should be expected.
Definitely.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 11, 2010 - 2:00AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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A lot of it depends on how combat-focused your group is. I played in a group of five, but of that five, one was really good at fighting, two were fairly good, and the last two of us were almost worthless. There was a couple easy encounters, but also a couple really tough ones. In the group I ran, though were never got past DoD 7, there was four pretty good fighters, including one tank that I didn't think could die in those encounters. Again, a group of five, but combat was mostly too easy.
It also depends on how good you are at playing tactically. If you kind of get NPCs slaughtered, you'll want to up the challenge level. If you can turn a few weak troopers into a TPK against high-level character, then the encounters as written are pretty good.
What you might try is just increasing the enemies CL some. Just stick a soldier level or a couple nonHerioc levels onto the opponents to make them a bit tougher. Increasing the number of opponents isn't always going to work out and it'll slow down the game, so just keep that in mind.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 11, 2010 - 2:33AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2006
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A lot of it depends on how combat-focused your group is. I played in a group of five, but of that five, one was really good at fighting, two were fairly good, and the last two of us were almost worthless. There was a couple easy encounters, but also a couple really tough ones. In the group I ran, though were never got past DoD 7, there was four pretty good fighters, including one tank that I didn't think could die in those encounters. Again, a group of five, but combat was mostly too easy.
It also depends on how good you are at playing tactically. If you kind of get NPCs slaughtered, you'll want to up the challenge level. If you can turn a few weak troopers into a TPK against high-level character, then the encounters as written are pretty good.
Unfortunately, I've got a bit of a reputation as a "killer GM". My D&D 3.5 Red Hand of Doom campaign had a pretty high body count. I can definitely play tactically. I fully intend to play the NPCs to their full capacity.
What you might try is just increasing the enemies CL some. Just stick a soldier level or a couple nonHerioc levels onto the opponents to make them a bit tougher. Increasing the number of opponents isn't always going to work out and it'll slow down the game, so just keep that in mind.
Well, but how important is it to be mindful of CL if I'm not going to be using XP? With DoD, I've got most of the stats I'll need already done up, but I was planning on just winging it some of the time (rather than being the anal-retentive perfectionist and dotting every i and crossing every t like I used to do  ).
I will probably end up beefing up some of the more important NPCs if/when I rewrite them to include some of the newer material, though.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 11, 2010 - 11:32AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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Well, but how important is it to be mindful of CL if I'm not going to be using XP?
Exactly. Since you aren't messing with XP (good choice, BTW), CL is only really an indicator of challenge level, not XP gained. Some encounters only have one or two real opponents in them, and in those cases, you really don't want to just double the number of bad guys or add more mooks to be killed since those are basically boss encounters. Instead, just boost their challenge level some and you'll make the encounter more difficult without loosing that "one bad guy" feeling.
With DoD, I've got most of the stats I'll need already done up, but I was planning on just winging it some of the time (rather than being the anal-retentive perfectionist and dotting every i and crossing every t like I used to do ).
The secret is to get good at taking shortcuts, that way you get both. Like simply boosting a characters ability scores by two points each. Normally this won't take you out of the possible range, and only affects a few things. +1 to almost all rolls and defenses and +level in HP is about all you have to do. That's probably about one CL boost. For lots of characters, you can do that once, twice, or even three times over before you start getting past the possible range.
Another easy one is the four nonHeroic levels. It is simply +3 BAB, +2 to all skills, and 8+Con*3 HP, and one or two Feats, depending on the level. It's really eas to just stick onto a character to add some challenge (technically it is +1 CL, but the effect is better than that).
EDIT:Suppse to be 10+Con*4.
Soldier levels are also pretty easy to just stick on. Talents like Melee Smash and Weapon Spec are easy to keep track of, so they make good options.
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