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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 12:51PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2005
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Because enough people play it, it has been sanctioned at Gencon and they wanted to open up the option to sanction it for everyone legally. It has a very strong fun competitive component and actually, is a better format generally than 100pts normal when I have played it.
It seems an unusual justification for introducing a format that isn't even a suggested format in the rulebook. I recall playing it once it my venue and it not going over so well so my point of view might be a little jaded by the bad experience. Just seems strange, and unnecessary to make it an officially sanctioned format, especially since they are banning pieces from it (one of which was one of the popular pieces that was used in my limited experience). It just seems a little silly to me that's all.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 12:53PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2005
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I find it interesting that none of the maps in one of the map packs are legal in any format. Seems like it defeats the purpose of having a map pack in the first place(except for RPG puroses), and if you play DCI specifically all you're purchasing is a $10 anakin.
But to play devils advocate I'll take the side of saying there are plenty of people who play casually that can use the map. I'll even go a step further and emphasize that the game developers that are putting the map packs out are not the same people who decide which maps are legal for DCI.
But not playing devils advocate for a moment, I'd side with you in saying that it is a bit curious and suggests if nothing else a disconnect between the game development and the tournament play. Something I've been trying to say for some time now to no avail.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 12:53PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2007
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It just seems a little strange that we're not going to start changing the dynamic of sanctioned play by adding in made up formats.
Well, I guess I don't see why you would be treating the DCI floor rules as something holy that shouldn't be changed or expanded on. I mean the concept of gambit and victory points were a made up format to deal with jerks using lockout victories. I guess I don't see how adding DD to the format is really any different. If alot of people play the format then add it in. I would love to see tile wars added next!:D
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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 12:56PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2005
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Well, I guess I don't see why you would be treating the DCI floor rules as something holy that shouldn't be changed or expanded on. I mean the concept of gambit and victory points were a made up format to deal with jerks using lockout victories. I guess I don't see how adding DD to the format is really any different. If alot of people play the format then add it in. I would love to see tile wars added next!:D
I'm not saying DD, Gambit, or the init changes are neccessarily a bad thing. Just that DCI seems to be rewriting the rules of the game. Isn't that the game developers job and not the body that oversees the tournament play of the game?
If these things are such great additions to the game then they should make it into the official rules. Let the game developers write the rules of the game and tournament governing body write the tournament rules. I know some people can argue that everything that DCI has done has been tournament specific, but it is also game specific and should be in the core rules.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 12:59PM
#15
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- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
- 2008 GenCon Star Wars Minis Champion
Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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But not playing devils advocate for a moment, I'd side with you in saying that it is a bit curious and suggests if nothing else a disconnect between the game development and the tournament play. Something I've been trying to say for some time now to no avail.
Because you are talking to the wrong people  The game developers (in this case Mapmaker and Rob) are the ones who are disconnected from tournament play. There are a number of reasons/explanations but the simple fact of the matter is this. DCI is there to ensure a fun and fair play environment. Maps, rules and figures who are major obstacles to those tournaments, have to be removed from DCI play. It isn't DCI's fault that the developers are making products that don't work well in tournaments.
And to be fair, this is nothing new at all. See ATAT, Endor Map, Mustafar, Korriban, Original Hoth Map, the tile concept, Scenario Books for the first 3 sets, most huges, etc. There are plenty of product that was made that was never intended for tournament play. It isn't a new phenomenom. Mapmaker even warned us that some of the maps he was making would not please the DCI tournament crowd, and others would. It should be no surprise then as a result to anyone that some make it and others won't.
If you have a problem with that, as I told you in the other thread, you need to talk to Rob and Mapmaker, not the DCI people. DCI does not have any control over what and how they choose to make given products.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 12:59PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2009
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Glad we know one way or the other now.
Things should be interesting with GOWK out. I'm interested to see how the metagame changes.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 1:03PM
#17
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- Forum Guide
- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
- Official Star Wars Minis Net Rep
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So the floor rules are up.
Thanks to everyone who contributed in the discussion. Some are sure to be unhappy with the most obvious change and I just want you to know that it was not an easy decision. A lot of stuff was considered and it ended up being a very close call. We'll be watching how the metagame shapes up at Gencon, and how JA and GAW affect things and there is every possibility that this ban will be reconsidered the next time the floor rules are updated.
So if you're happy with the GOWK ban, you can thank all the usual suspects, and if you hate it feel free to blame me. But the discussion doesn't necessarily end here for those opposed.
Hope everyone enjoys the new maps, the alternate card for the 181st pilot being legal, and the new DD format recieving an official nod since it's been sanctioned in the past. Congrats to Boris_the_Dwarf for creating this format and having it officially adopted.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 1:05PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2005
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If you have a problem with that, as I told you in the other thread, you need to talk to Rob and Mapmaker, not the DCI people. DCI does not have any control over what and how they choose to make given products.
I would gladly forward over my comments/suggestions. But since Rob is absent from the forums anymore where should I send such comments? And is anything actually likely to be done with them if they reach their intended recipient?
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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 1:07PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2007
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All in all (and while it is good to have some closure on some of these issues), I'm less excited about these than the last set of floor rules (the last set added a bunch of great stuff and took away very little, this set adds very little and takes away a bunch of good stuff). Too bad they banned to important parts of the CW starter (GOWK and one of the maps -- both of which were legal up to this point). Count Dooku will likely see less use now, too (though from the regionals it didn't look like people were using him a lot anyway). At least I got one new DCI-legal map for that $15 . It's also a bit disappointing that both of the map pack 1 maps are banned (seems like the Nelvaan Snow Fields, though not perfect, wasn't much better or worse than Hoth Echo Base which is still legal). Not sure I would have spent $10 for an exclusive figure that I'll hardly ever use had I known this would be the case (I'm disappointed they would do this and not be clear about it up front); though perhaps others still would have and/or are not. If this was a big company/product like Coke, both of these would go down as very poor decisions given the other alternatives they chose to ignore at various points. Finally, last time they left off a few maps altogether for some reason (i.e., several were not on the legal or illegal list). They did that again for some reason (i.e., AT-AT Shield Generator map, AT-AT Hoth Plains map, Attack on Endore Endore Bunker map, and LOTF poster Ossus map are not mentioned at all in this draft). Obviously they are not legal, but if they are going to have a "not legal" section I think they should be listed there (it's a PDF so it's free for WOTC, and there is lots of space on the last page so there would be no extra printing involved for anyone else).
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4 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2009 - 1:09PM
#20
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- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
- SWM DCI Guru
Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2006
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It seems an unusual justification for introducing a format that isn't even a suggested format in the rulebook. I recall playing it once it my venue and it not going over so well so my point of view might be a little jaded by the bad experience. Just seems strange, and unnecessary to make it an officially sanctioned format, especially since they are banning pieces from it (one of which was one of the popular pieces that was used in my limited experience). It just seems a little silly to me that's all.
DV I will respond to some of the things you asked.
Why Dynamic Duo? Because it is widely played at LGS's, it is sanctioned at Gencon and widely popular there. It from what I have seen is as or more popular than the current 100 point game. I think this is due to figures costing more over time. But it is a great format and gives those gamestores out there that like to do this an option at sanctioning these events with the hope of drawing a bigger crowd. Let me ask you this. How does it negatively effect you or your LGS?
Your question about the maps.
Well the maps need to be fair for both players. If a map is designed that is decidedly unfair for say melee or a type of squad. If that map is an autoloss for some because of its design what needs to be done. Remember the idea for the Floor Rules is to foster a fair competitive enviornment. So if the map is not equally balanced and fair to gameplay then it gets left out. The maps are designed by Mapmaker he submits them to Wizards for approval. DCI does not get involved int he process. If they did then maybe some minor changes could be made prior to release that would insure all maps are legal for tournament play. But again for casual play take your pick.
 Collection: 801/801 SWM DCI Content Manager 
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