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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 11:39AM
#1
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 11:49AM
#2
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- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
- 2008 GenCon Star Wars Minis Champion
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Yoda activates and double attacks Vader's App right now. This should put 40 on him. Second activation is the Gungan at E3 - he uses Cesta on the Gran. Sure it could hit yoda, but you take the risk, and he has plenty of fps to reroll if necessary. If you kill VA on the first cesta, then use the second on Vader himself. If not, cesta again. Odds are you should either kill or activate VA.
Now, Vader will likely pound Yoda for 60, but he survives another round. Now pound Vader with all the gungans you can. You might even take him down that round, and should Yoda die, you are still in good shape.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 12:15PM
#3
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Odds are you should either kill or activate VA.
Cesta only activates nonliving characters.
Also, how are you using Cesta against the VA? It follows normal targetting rules, and you can't get VA without cover.
You could toss first against the Gran, but if he (the Gran) fails his save, you only get the one Cesta shot at the Apprentice (for being adjacent to the Gran).
Also, does anyone actually see where the Ugnaught is? I can't see him for the life of me ... [Not that it matters all that much ...]
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 12:43PM
#4
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I haven't read the other responses yet, but I'll read them after posting my response. Yoda was a lucky green punk to win init. :P First activation: Yoda gains a FP (up to 4 now) and double-attacks Vader's Apprentice Unleashed (VAU). If he gets lucky with a crit, then VAU is toasted and he'll get an additional attack (Flurry), but you obviously can't plan on that. He saves his force points though, for re-rolling his Cesta saves (coming up). Yoda doesn't attack Vader unless he happens to crit VAU, for fear of Vader's Djem-So. Second activation: the Gungan Artillerist at E3 shoots his Cesta at the Gran/VAU/Yoda, likely killing Vau (who is now at 10hp) and the Gran. Yoda needs to make both saves (rerolling with FP twice if necessary) if he's to survive this round. Since it's my turn, I can determine the order of who makes the saves (correct me if I'm wrong?), so I'll make Yoda roll his saves last. If VAU uses a FP to reroll a save, then Yoda will Cancel it, still having 1 FP left for rerolling his own saves. If VAU doesn't use a FP, then Yoda can reroll thrice. If Yoda makes both his saves, then Vader can only do 60dmg to Yoda this turn (barring crits), which would really put the pinch on the Imperial player. EDIT: Yep, it looks like Bill and I have the same response. Kill VAU right away. @ Elvenshae, Cesta works just like Missiles: it affects the target as well as everyone adjacent to the target, so VAU is in real trouble.  One more thing, just thought of it: the E3 Gungan moves to base Palpatine after shooting his Cesta. It won't likely have a big impact (one small AOO), but it's better than standing there doing nothing after activating.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 1:04PM
#5
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@ Elvenshae, Cesta works just like Missiles: it affects the target as well as everyone adjacent to the target, so VAU is in real trouble.
Yes, I know, but let's look at how that works (assuming you're using the E3 Gungan):
You're guaranteed to get 1 Cesta shot off on the Gran (which will automatically include VA). There's a 50% chance this affects the VA, and a 50% chance it kills off the Gran.
If it kills the Gran, you can't throw your second Cesta at VA. He's in cover (from Yoda), and Vader is both closer and not in cover, and thus the VA isn't a legal target.
If you want to make it so that you can throw the Cesta and get VA, even if the Gran dies on the first toss, then you need to move the E3 Gungan before Cesta-ing (G2 looks like the best stopping spot). But, then, you can't end your turn next to Palps.
[EDIT: And, in no case, do you get to activate VA through Cesta.]
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 1:07PM
#6
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Yes, good point. I see what you mean now. Recognizing that, it would obviously be best to move the Gungan to G2 or G1 first, before Cest-ing. Now VAU and Vader are both legal targets if the Gran dies on the first one.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 1:09PM
#7
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- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
- 2008 GenCon Star Wars Minis Champion
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Yes, good point. I see what you mean now. Recognizing that, it would obviously be best to move the Gungan to G2 or G1 first, before Cest-ing. Now VAU and Vader are both legal targets if the Gran dies on the first one.
Yes I simply omitted the move portion in my explanation. That's a good clarification and is what I intended.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 1:20PM
#8
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@Elvenshae: You're not blind. The Ugnaught was defeated.  Sorry for the confusion. Good discussion so far.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 1:24PM
#9
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Yes I simply omitted the move portion in my explanation. That's a good clarification and is what I intended.[/quote]
Yep, it's the minor stuff like that which is easy to forget when you're playing endless games during a tournament. Like at Gencon.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 2:05PM
#10
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Okay, I really don't see how the Imperials can come out on top, but barring crits and going with probabilities (as well as the previously mentionned strategy for the Republic), than Vader should the the last remaining threat after Yoda and the Gungan's onslaught. Vader should activate first, then spend a Force Point to move faster, all the way to F7, where he will try to hurt Tarpals. You can activate Palpatine next, spend a Force Point to move faster, and bring him to D8 to neutralize some Gungans. Then, pray to survive dans win Initiative next round!
Darth Waste, Endbringer
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 2:05PM
#11
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Yes, good point. I see what you mean now. Recognizing that, it would obviously be best to move the Gungan to G2 or G1 first, before Cest-ing. Now VAU and Vader are both legal targets if the Gran dies on the first one.
Heh - G1 isn't a good choice.
If you go there, and end up killing the Gran and VA on your first Cesta (a possibility), then you're stuck shooting the Emperor with your second - and he's fairly low-threat at the moment (he can only do 30 damage every other round, so long as you're careful about placement).
Vader would have cover (the low objects in E3-F3); you get to ignore the one in F3 if you're standing in G2, making Vader and the Emperor legal targets.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 2:23PM
#12
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- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
- 2008 GenCon Star Wars Minis Champion
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Vader would have cover (the low objects in E3-F3); you get to ignore the one in F3 if you're standing in G2, making Vader and the Emperor legal targets.
Yep G-2 is the correct place to move
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 2:51PM
#13
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Just for fun... how would this play out if whoever went 1st in the round, could only activate 1 figure... and whoever goes 2nd can activate two figures?
If at first you don't succeed, spend a force point and roll again.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 28, 2008 - 3:06PM
#14
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- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
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Just for fun... how would this play out if whoever went 1st in the round, could only activate 1 figure... and whoever goes 2nd can activate two figures?
if i was Yoda i would make the empire go first. The imperials would probably use the apprentice to hit Yoda twice and then continue as before.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 29, 2008 - 6:48AM
#15
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nevermind. I didn't see the cover that the Gungan is standing on and that Vader is partially-obscuring. G2 is the spot.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 29, 2008 - 9:24AM
#16
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Okay, let's assume that the Yoda-Gungan plan works: Yoda doubles VA, the gungan advances to G2 and double Cestas, eliminating VA and the Gran, and dealing 20 to Yoda, who is out of FPs (3 for Force Defending VA's attempted reroll on the second Cesta, and 1 to reroll his own save).
Yoda's now at 60HP and out of FPs.
How does the Empire come back from this situation?
Vader is out of position to get to Tarpals this turn, even if he wanted to turn his back on Yoda, rather than doubling him immediately and ending his threat.
The Emperor is limited (assuming only fairly intelligent placement on the Republic's part) to eliminating one opposing figure every other round.
Let's say, as an intelligent first move, Vader doubles Yoda and defeats him (which is only 64% likely without a FPRR, Vader needing two rolls above 4 to succeed; with his single-available FPRR, he's got a 77% chance; even a lucky crit on the first attack will not save him from needing the double; we'll assume he doesn't need the FPRR).
The Emperor's only option is to activate and stay away from Vader to avoid giving the incoming Cestai (usses? i?) two-for-the-price-of-one. He ends his turn up to 1 FP, still at full health. (But see below.*)
Then, the Cesta cometh. Vader will get hit with 6 incoming Cesta attacks, of which he'll naturally save against three and take no damage. He's got a 50/50 shot on the reroll for one of the ones he fails at, so we'll give that to him. Vader's got two incoming packets of 20 damage, and reduces, on average, one of them with his Dark Armor save. Vader's hit, then, for 30, leaving him at 20HP.
The Republic player moves his remaining gungans such that they aren't adjacent to each other and, perhaps more importantly, Tarpals isn't reachable with a 6-square move (and, if he can, the Republic player should just get Tarpals the heck outta Dodge; his own offensive capability is meaningless compared to his affect on the offensive capability of the rest of his squad). Use Mas (useless now) to run interference.
So, at the beginning of the next round, Vader's at 20 HP / 0FP, and the Emperor is at Full HP / 1FP (moving to 2 when he activates). Neither are adjance to any enemies, and the only enemy Vader can one-shoot without a crit is the Gungan Soldier, whom the Republic player was smart enough to keep out of Vader's striking range. The gungans are otherwise nonadjacent to each other.
The Empire wins init. What would their best move be?
(*Note that charging the Emperor into the lower room, acting as a nonadjacent screen for Vader - stopping in C6, D6, or D7 - might be the better move. than remaining far away. This would force the gungans to either Cestus the Emperor or move around him, into the upper room, to target Vader. Doing so might force the Gungans to clump up, leaving them better positioned for the lightning next round.)
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1 year ago ::
Aug 29, 2008 - 9:52AM
#17
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- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
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Let's say, as an intelligent first move, Vader doubles Yoda and defeats him (which is only 64% likely without a FPRR, Vader needing two rolls above 4 to succeed; with his single-available FPRR, he's got a 77% chance; even a lucky crit on the first attack will not save him from needing the double; we'll assume he doesn't need the FPRR).
The Emperor's only option is to activate and stay away from Vader to avoid giving the incoming Cestai (usses? i?) two-for-the-price-of-one. He ends his turn up to 1 FP, still at full health. (But see below.*)
hmm, i'm not sure i would let vader stay there for all the cesta even if it meant Yoda staying alive. I would hit him once and move to G5. Yoda can't risk and AoO for fear of the djem So and riposte. So he stays put hoping for the init.
Emperor then moves to F5 and absorbes the Cesta, but actually won't take any becasue it will kill Yoda.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 29, 2008 - 11:22AM
#18
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If the Emperor had 1 FP, this would be fun. As is, to play out the Imps there are too much interactions to think about. I was hoping to fry the shieldbearer and 2 gungans, but that ain't happening. As is, I think his best move is D5 as a meat shield for Vader. But Vader needs init to wreck Yoda and that makes the game a bit closer.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 29, 2008 - 11:45AM
#19
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Can't move Vader to G5, that's Yoda's square, isn't it? H5 maybe?
Also, I'd take the AoO on Vader, if I was playing republic. If you don't you have a 50/50 chance of doing 40 damage next round if you win init, but unless you are hitting the Emperor, then you're still likely going to die after the first hit, anyway. And by keeping him alive, you are hamstringing your gungans.
A 20 on an AoO is worth two in the bush?
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1 year ago ::
Aug 29, 2008 - 12:25PM
#20
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- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
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Can't move Vader to G5, that's Yoda's square, isn't it? H5 maybe?
yes, H5.
Also, I'd take the AoO on Vader, if I was playing republic. If you don't you have a 50/50 chance of doing 40 damage next round if you win init, but unless you are hitting the Emperor, then you're still likely going to die after the first hit, anyway. And by keeping him alive, you are hamstringing your gungans.
A 20 on an AoO is worth two in the bush?
if you take the AoO then thats fine, Its Vader at 30 HP rather than at 20 with a dead Yoda which means it will take 2 cestas to kill him. If Vader stays there its likely he won't last the round, at least by moving him you get emperor to take the shots where he will most likely survive and Vader can move next round.
in any case, its a lost game for the empire, you need Vader to finish at least another gungan to have any hope and to do that you need to cover him with teh emperor.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 29, 2008 - 5:06PM
#21
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if i was Yoda i would make the empire go first. The imperials would probably use the apprentice to hit Yoda twice and then continue as before.
But in this scenerio (1 act, 2 act) If the Imps go first, couldn't VSA an AOO from Yoda for 20 damage ... then Lightning4 Yoda for 40 damage, while moving out of target range of the Gungan at E3 (say to space K2 ... not seen on pic) ... That could keep the VSA alive an extra round.
If at first you don't succeed, spend a force point and roll again.
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1 year ago ::
Aug 30, 2008 - 7:32PM
#22
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So what are the rules on lightsaber throw? Does need to be the closest target and do you need line of sight?
If you can't saber Tarpel by activating the Emperor first then break from Yoda and put yourself beside the sheild and tarpel and take a swing.
OR
Take one swing at Yoda then break. That way you get a chance at three strikes on Yoda and if Yoda dies you can back Vader off so that the Emperor is the legal target.
Though... If you could I would activate Yoda first then move the Gungan next to Vader and target Yoda Twice (I really don't think its possible) using lightsaber reflect twice. Yoda 80 hit points Vader 10.
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1 year ago ::
Sep 02, 2008 - 8:25AM
#23
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- SWMGamers Hall of Fame Inductee
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But in this scenerio (1 act, 2 act) If the Imps go first, couldn't VSA an AOO from Yoda for 20 damage ... then Lightning4 Yoda for 40 damage, while moving out of target range of the Gungan at E3 (say to space K2 ... not seen on pic) ... That could keep the VSA alive an extra round.
can't lightning Yoda while he has 3 force. Force defence prevents VA from targeting Yoda.
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