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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 8:15AM
#71
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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My comments are no where near about proving if you are or are not a good player.
You are either a good player or not
This is about the LFR Welfare System.
I can be a slacker and hook up with some good players and not even bother reading the rules or my powers and I can still get full rewards, EXP and loot delivered on a silver platter.
Apparently, this kind of behavior is ok and condoned by some who have posted on this thread.
Have fun with your game.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 9:03AM
#72
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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For clarity - Aribeth, are you suggesting that at a table of 6 players who play a difficult module, if one of them sucks, that person should get less treasure?
Or are you saying that in the hypothetical case where there are two tables. One has lots of optimized people at the highest level available and crushes the module. The other has lower level people who are more built towards roleplay and less tactically adept. They scrape by, barely managing to succeed.
You'd like the second table to get less treasure/xp, even if both played high tier?
What happens at a convention or game day if half a table of the "elite" and half a table of the "sucky" get together?
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 9:05AM
#73
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My comments are no where near about proving if you are or are not a good player.
But based on your initial post, that sounds exactly like what you are talking about:
When LFR gets rebooted, will there be a mechanism that recognizes the accomplishments and skills of the better players?
Currently, as I perceive this campaign to be, a novice player can achieve the same accolades / story awards as the veteran / more skilled player.
I do not see a point in upping the challenge to a particular party if all parties are rewarded the same thing. In a sense why work harder for the same reward. We as people do not usually do that in real life, why have that kind of environment in the game.
LFR is great for what it is, a vehicle that brings people together and have some commonality as to the stories the players have played.
LFR is horrible for those players that are looking for a sense of accomplishment.
(Emphasis added by me.)
In LFR, as in any human social activity, there is already an inherent social rewards system built in to recognize accomplishments. Personally I can feel a sense of accomplishment without some official system in place to pat me on the head and tell me I'm a good girl. In psychology they call that intrinsic motivation/reward. (And, honestly, even if they did attempt to implement some sort of "better player" rewards system in LFR, it would likely end up feeling cheesy and hollow.)
If you're looking for tangible rewards (like gold/treasure) for being a better player - well, the admins have already said they're not going to do that.
Lori Anderson
WotC Freelancer, LFR author
@LittleLorika
CALI3-3 The Agony of Almraiven (co-author)
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author)
CALI4-1 Plain of Stone Spiders (author)
QUES4-1 Liberation (co-author)
EPIC5-1 Plaguewrought Prism (co-author)
TotalCon: http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 9:08AM
#74
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2005
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I can be a slacker and hook up with some good players and not even bother reading the rules or my powers and I can still get full rewards, EXP and loot delivered on a silver platter.
Well we are changing both the xp & gp systems for LFR, though I'm not entirely sure it will address your desire of rewarding super-awesome players and punish those who suck. That said, I think we are going to see more meaningful Story Awards in the future and that might in some ways address some of your issues. I will note that players looking to be carried are likely to quickly find it hard to find people willing to play with them. They don't need for us to put a REJECT stamp on their forehead so everyone knows they don't pull their own weight.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 9:12AM
#75
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2005
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I don't care about if the other players are poor performers (or whatever your criteria is), as long as the rewards are the same for everyone it's fine with me... it really doesn't matter. I think having rewards for the "best" player is a really bad idea... which will lead to problems at the table. I can honestly say that if it came to a good or bad player reward system, I would for sure not play it... that's the old boys club... not for me.
Things I am not too thrilled with is the recent changes to LFR... that's what keeps me from running/playing LFR right now. To me, there is [strike]little[/strike]no reason to go that route versus running my own games. Why bother to invest time to level my character up when I can just make a level 11 wizard (want to see some upset players? Invite a brand new player to play an 11th level character at a table full of seasoned players). I think that is the single largest reason why I stopped running LFR.
The story awards are meaningless. Some of the MYRE adventures I have played have done well with their own rewards and tying things together... those are meaningful. But really, how many trinkets can I have from house Jalt? My greatest hope for the reboot is that those story awards will indeed mean something... and encourage players to start at level 1.
Reward cards are a joke, and go away at the end of the year anyhow. Those would have worked a lot better if they kept them as player rewards and handed a FEW out. But allowing zillions of cards kind of broke the idea of them, and trivialized many adventures. I for one am glad to see them go... and don't bring them back.
Regarding tiles: It would be really nice if the adventures limit themselves to the new "essentials" tile sets that are coming out. Those are supposed to always be in print, and thus everyone can get them. I don't have the original tile set, so there are some adventures out there that I couldn't run without using a battle mat. I don't mind using a battle mat, but as others have said, the tiles do add some fun to the encounter. Whenever I can, I proxy in poster maps for encounters.
A guide to overarching plotlines for DMs would be another thing I would like to see. It would be cool to read just a paragraph or two about what the plan was for the story line. Right now, it's guesswork as to where to take stories or which adventures to run next. You could even have a player blurb about the area and what the general story is about.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 9:47AM
#76
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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For clarity - Aribeth, are you suggesting that at a table of 6 players who play a difficult module, if one of them sucks, that person should get less treasure?
Or are you saying that in the hypothetical case where there are two tables. One has lots of optimized people at the highest level available and crushes the module. The other has lower level people who are more built towards roleplay and less tactically adept. They scrape by, barely managing to succeed.
You'd like the second table to get less treasure/xp, even if both played high tier?
What happens at a convention or game day if half a table of the "elite" and half a table of the "sucky" get together?
Keithric,
To be clear, I AM NOT suggesting any solution at the moment.
I am identifying an issue in LFR that bothers me and wondered if the Leadership sees the issue as well and if they are going to address said issue.
If you are asking me what the Leadership should do in relation to this issue that is another topic of conversation.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 10:01AM
#77
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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And what makes the best player best? There are many ways to play the game... so is a poorly optimized character that is memorable and role-played well bad? Is a player who knows the PH perfectly but didn't invest in 2 or 3 or keep track of the errata bad? Is a player who has four kids and so plays rarely enough to struggle remembering their powers bad?
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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 10:23AM
#78
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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I can be a slacker and hook up with some good players and not even bother reading the rules or my powers and I can still get full rewards, EXP and loot delivered on a silver platter.
Well we are changing both the xp & gp systems for LFR, though I'm not entirely sure it will address your desire of rewarding super-awesome players and punish those who suck. That said, I think we are going to see more meaningful Story Awards in the future and that might in some ways address some of your issues. I will note that players looking to be carried are likely to quickly find it hard to find people willing to play with them. They don't need for us to put a REJECT stamp on their forehead so everyone knows they don't pull their own weight.
Good to hear Skerrit... I look forward to seeing what the leadership team has in store.
On another note: Having players ignore other players because of skill cause another issue of elitism? Something the RPGA has been accused of being repeatedly?
Question: Is that what you other people do to those kinds of players (Refuse to play with them)?
If true... WOW, another revelation
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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 10:54AM
#79
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Its a welfare gaming system of sorts and it seems many people here on these forums are ok with that.
Yeah, what's wrong with that?
I can be a slacker and hook up with some good players and not even bother reading the rules or my powers and I can still get full rewards, EXP and loot delivered on a silver platter.
You can also be a slacker and hook up with some other slackers and not even bother reading the rules or my powers and I can still get full rewards, EXP and loot delivered on a silver platter because the DM sees how bad you are and just makes the combats easier with full loot and XP. So what?
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3 years ago ::
Aug 31, 2010 - 11:27AM
#80
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2005
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I only refuse to play with jerks. If you aren't good at D&D at 11th level, I'll still play with you, and even help you if you ask... but part of that help is going to be the suggestion that next time they might want to try a lower level table until they get used to the character they are playing. Hell, I won't make a level 11 wizard because I have no idea how to play one efficiently. 11th level rogue, I am all over it.... because I have played up to that point with one and know how to be effective with one.
Now, I have had sidelong looks and comments at how I play my rogue character before... that's not something I appreciate. I play my rogue the way I want to and don't need input from someone else. That's the kind of elite-isms I have run into before with LFR (and even in LG), and that's the kind of crap that really has no business being there. So what if my rogue goes unconscious two times in a combat and burns through all his surges... he still did buckets of damage before falling... and kept the attention of something that would have melted someone else's butt. If someone wants assistance with what to do... let them ASK for help (or ask if they need some assistance). Being helpful can sometimes come off as being an elite jerk.
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