Sorry I haven't been very active 'round these parts of late. The short version is, work has near overwhelmed me of late - and taking care of my daughter at home in the evenings so my wife can finish her homework and things. . . well. . . I've been a bad CA.
That said - I'm here today, and I'm working on some thread clean-up - though in skimming most threads I stumble across it looks like Dragon9, Kenobi65, and Pedr have done a GREAT job in answering questions and keeping discussions going.
To that end - if there's anything that's been missed, or that needs a clearer answer, please post here so I can shoot things up the chain for the LFR Global Admins and/or Chris Tulach.
Thanks again, everyone, for being so patient and always making this a happy "home" to return to.
Hey everyone!Sorry I haven't been very active 'round these parts of late. The short version is, work has near overwhelmed me of late - and taking care of my daughter at home in the evenings so my wife can finish her homework and things. . . well. .
I don't have any news on the backlog, but I have overhead the Globals discussing bits and pieces of the problem. I'll ask for an official quote on the matter, but I know it's something that's very much on their minds right now.
I don't have any news on the backlog, but I have overhead the Globals discussing bits and pieces of the problem. I'll ask for an official quote on the matter, but I know it's something that's very much on their minds right now.
It isn't a big deal for me, but I would be curious if there is a date for the next CCG. There was supposed to be a new version and then we just had a small update instead.
I think there is still big confusion for a new player/DM as to where they sign up for rewards, what the rewards are, when they are sent out, etc. Even what to do with their new RPGA # is confusing to them (and a lot of the guides now miss a few screens that have changed). The main web site is just overall confusing to new players (and even experienced ones) and needs more refinement.
On the CCG are a few questions that are big questions requiring analysis by the admins, such as whether an author can play a mod they have written. Just pointing it out in case they need a reminder of these larger discussions.
I think the lack of H2 and H3 support at GenCon raised some eyebrows and caused some grief, which may be worth noting if you report on such sentiments. The delay for Origin and the delay in mod releases has some people in our area worried about the higher-level planning. Along similar lines, I think PAX being just non-LFR had some issues. Doable from the limited perspective of seating all the tables, but not in the interest of a lot of the core players, who are also often the more experienced judges for such events. I hope that WotC/RPGA takes in context the success of D&D Encounters but also realizes that such a program does not please a lot of the core living campaign base. (I can imagine a scenario whereby WotC sees it being successful and lower cost and maybe even thinks it drives more sales, but fails to see the importance of strongly supporting a living campaign for the vast majority of the RPGA players).
It isn't a big deal for me, but I would be curious if there is a date for the next CCG. There was supposed to be a new version and then we just had a small update instead. I think there is still big confusion for a new player/DM as to where they sign
It isn't a big deal for me, but I would be curious if there is a date for the next CCG. There was supposed to be a new version and then we just had a small update instead.
There is no firm date, but it will be out before Origins. I am compiling the new CCG now and will then release it to the Regional Admins to review and edit first. Then I hope to have a public review before releasing a final draft. So no specific date, but definately by Origins.
On the CCG are a few questions that are big questions requiring analysis by the admins, such as whether an author can play a mod they have written. Just pointing it out in case they need a reminder of these larger discussions.
I think that may actually end up in the new Writer's Guidelines, which we hope to release after the CCG (probably between Origins and Gen Con).
I think the lack of H2 and H3 support at GenCon raised some eyebrows and caused some grief, which may be worth noting if you report on such sentiments.
I'm not going to address this right now, but I will say it's more of an announcement than something that will be in the CCG. I do have it on my radar and likely we will post a Blog post discussing it on the LFG group (community.wizards.com/lfr). If you aren't a member, you should sign up today! I am trying to move all of the Globals towards using it for announcements, so like Gomeztoo, we are posting there and its easy to miss if you don't check it every so often.
There is no firm date, but it will be out before Origins. I am compiling the new CCG now and will then release it to the Regional Admins to review and edit first. Then I hope to have a public review before releasing a final draft. So no specific date
Even tho9ugh we don't know the schedule for Origins yet, I suspect it will have mor elower level play. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the summer cons got split up like that.
Even tho9ugh we don't know the schedule for Origins yet, I suspect it will have mor elower level play. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the summer cons got split up like that.
There is no firm date, but it will be out before Origins. I am compiling the new CCG now and will then release it to the Regional Admins to review and edit first. Then I hope to have a public review before releasing a final draft. So no specific date, but definately by Origins.
I just wanted to make special note of the bolded text: that is flat out awesome and I thank you for that decision.
I just wanted to make special note of the bolded text: that is flat out awesome and I thank you for that decision.
I mentioned these before, but let me repeat, and not be dilatory.
1) We really need to know the Q2 plan. Even if its the Q1 schedule of backlog, plus a little, or even if the dates are going to be vague, it at least gives TO people like me a chance at offering events. I have three months to play these for conventions and its nice to be able to plan these ahead.
2) (EDIT) see below
3) The PAX situation has me very worried. Can someone calm our fears?
(reedit) NVM put it in the right place...
I mentioned these before, but let me repeat, and not be dilatory.1) We really need to know the Q2 plan. Even if its the Q1 schedule of backlog, plus a little, or even if the dates are going to be vague, it at least gives TO people like me a chance at
1) We're working on it; having some staff issues at the moment so it seems likely that the schedule won't be out until next week at the earliest.
2) Not anything the LFR staff controls (the con support being down) as its all run by WOTC, but at this point it seems unlikely we're going hand out any special story objects for conventions.
3) Again, not anything the LFR staff controls or in fact, has input on.
1) We're working on it; having some staff issues at the moment so it seems likely that the schedule won't be out until next week at the earliest.2) Not anything the LFR staff controls (the con support being down) as its all run by WOTC, but at this p
2) Not anything the LFR staff controls (the con support being down) as its all run by WOTC, but at this point it seems unlikely we're going hand out any special story objects for conventions.
3) Again, not anything the LFR staff controls or in fact, has input on.
Fair enough...
This is awesome, and handles my immediate problem,Fair enough...
I'm not going to address this right now, but I will say it's more of an announcement than something that will be in the CCG. I do have it on my radar and likely we will post a Blog post discussing it on the LFG group (community.wizards.com/lfr). If you aren't a member, you should sign up today! I am trying to move all of the Globals towards using it for announcements, so like Gomeztoo, we are posting there and its easy to miss if you don't check it every so often.
Until members can receive a report on changes (posts/wiki edits/new threads/blogs/etc.) to a group, please also announce it on these forums. Otherwise, most of us won't know. I mean this in the nicest way, but I really can't click on every group I've joined every day to see if it changed.
Even tho9ugh we don't know the schedule for Origins yet, I suspect it will have mor elower level play. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if the summer cons got split up like that.
I know you mean this well, but outside of PAX (and arguably for PAX), it is a really bad idea. PAX is at least a con(s) that have as their target a much wider audience. Thus, excluding the experienced player is somewhat permissible... though you have to wonder why you want to do that. At anything other than PAX (Gen Con, D&DXP, Origins, etc.), I see no value in excluding a demographic. "Oh, you are an experienced player that loves LFR? Sorry, you should not play at PAX. We will have no LFR. Oh, you are a new player? Come to Gen Con and play this cool MINI series. But, don't come next year, because we won't support H2."
The last Gen Con was really close to getting it right. An ADCP allowed less prep-work and scaled to all playable tiers. You had new mods for every tier. You had specials for all tiers. You had premieres for the newest tier. Then you had the delves and other one-shots. I think that could be pared down and adjusted and would work well. The key is a sliding scale rather than a hard stop, plus having something that is flexible. I would argue:
PAX:
1-2 Non-LFR one-shots to introduce new worlds, new programs, new products. (Example: one-shot showcasing new minis, tiles, and a book.)
A few sessions of latest D&D Encounters program. (To get them hooked on the new program).
2-4 H1 LFR adventures, of which 1-2 are new and the rest are really good recent releases. Or, a linked series. MINIs are ideal. (Get them hooked on LFR)
1 single scalable ADCP or scalable Special LFR adventure that can serve all current tiers. (Flexible, keeps judges happy and attracts experienced and new gamers).
Gen Con / D&DXP:
1-2 Non-LFR one-shots
1 Board game or non-D&D product demo or intro session
D&D Encounters on demand (basically open system for a slot or 2 - name the session you want, and have fun. Could even be played as the Delve, replacing that effort.)
LFR play for every tier. Study play demographics and shape the number of adventures at each tier to reflect that. Always provide at least 2 H1 adventures suitable for new players.
1 series of Special or ADCP adventures. Preferably a series (like the Elturgard specials) so it can be played several times by the same player or provide a seat for a certain tier of play, but a single scalable adventure like ADCP1-1 can work.
Origins: I don't know the con, so I won't hazard a guess at what works here.
Until members can receive a report on changes (posts/wiki edits/new threads/blogs/etc.) to a group, please also announce it on these forums. Otherwise, most of us won't know. I mean this in the nicest way, but I really can't click on every group I've
Short of the LFR open play, I can tell you this isn't going to happen. How do you support 9 tiers of play (H1-E3)? If we did something like that, there would be 9 regional or adventures, which is already more than we want for a major convention, and that doesn't even count any special events.
Short of the LFR open play, I can tell you this isn't going to happen. How do you support 9 tiers of play (H1-E3)? If we did something like that, there would be 9 regional or adventures, which is already more than we want for a major convention, and
Sure, once we are going all the way to E3, it is harder to do. But it can be done well enough (not necessarily with one adventure for each tier).
At Gen Con last year, we had:
D&D For Beginners
D&D Delve
D&D Ultimate Delve
D&D Championship (used to be called the Open)
ADCP1-1 Jungle Hunt (1 adventure H1 - P1)
SPEC1-3 (4 separate adventures, H1 - P1)
CORE1-13 (H1)
MINI1-1 (2-round H1)
IMPI1-5 (H2)
LURU1-5 (H3)
CORE1-14 (P1)
LFR Midnight Madness Open Play
That is a lot being offered! It covers non-LFR extensively while still covering all the tiers of play at that time.
Now, I would guess that the Ultimate Delve takes about as much work to write as the ADCP. In theory, you could convert that into a second part of the ADCP so you had two ADCPs covering all tiers. Change the 4 specs to be 3 specs, each covering a range of heroic, paragon, epic. Have two H1s as before, and then have the rest target tiers according to the reigning demographics.
The campaign can also use the MYRE concept to double-dip. If you look at last year's Ultimate Delve, you could lower the encounter levels to normal LFR levels and be able to run a MYRE shell in addition to being a competition for non-LFR players. Encounter 1: remove x and y. Etc. This season's D&D Encounters would also make a fine LFR MYRE, and could be fun in that format. Add a bit here and there and cut it off at 4 hours. Good times.
This Gen Con isn't far off. If it just had a scaling adventure that could meet the needs of all current tiers, it would be in good shape. Or, having the Specials bridge the gaps (SPEC 1 does H1-H3. SPEC 2 does P1 and P2. SPEC 3 does P3) could work well to give greater flexibility.
Sure, once we are going all the way to E3, it is harder to do. But it can be done well enough (not necessarily with one adventure for each tier).At Gen Con last year, we had: D&D For Beginners D&D Delve D&D Ultimate Delve D&D Championship (used to b
I know you mean this well, but outside of PAX (and arguably for PAX), it is a really bad idea. PAX is at least a con(s) that have as their target a much wider audience. Thus, excluding the experienced player is somewhat permissible... though you have to wonder why you want to do that. At anything other than PAX (Gen Con, D&DXP, Origins, etc.), I see no value in excluding a demographic.
No one's talking about excluding. The major Cons (which for the discussion of this is really DDXP, Origins, and GenCon) have been described as being either acuisition or retention cons. In Dave's own words: GenCon is an acuisition con, DDXP is a retention con, and Origins is a mix.
Now, I wasn't suggesting it was only going to be low level play. And I should have been clearer in my intent and said "heroic tier." Not low level play. Heck, lower level play woudl have been clearer.
No one's talking about excluding. The major Cons (which for the discussion of this is really DDXP, Origins, and GenCon) have been described as being either acuisition or retention cons. In Dave's own words: GenCon is an acuisition con, DDXP is a
Meh on titles. I don't mean to be disrespectful at all, mind you, but "Acquisition" is a lovely bit of business speak. Sure, you want to attract new players... but we had brand new players at D&D XP. We just had far fewer than at Gen Con last year (tons of new RPGA cards handed out) or at PAX Prime (incredible ratio of new players and walk-ins). So, sure, let's acquire new players.
But, PAX East did exclude people. 0 LFR support will exclude people. While I am a strong believer in playing a lot of things at Gen Con, my schedule is more than 50% RPGA and many people do choose a near 100% RPGA/LFR schedule. I suspect that the demographics of casual play have a good number of players that have just one PC in the 5-10 range. Those players are excluded by this year's Gen Con. My old DC group narrowly avoided being excluded. They have been fairly clear to me that they prefer not to create a second PC, but I'm doing my best to bring them into more LFR play. Luckily, we can play the three MINI mods and not level out... barely. To do so, we have to play our midnight madness LFR only after the three MINIs, which is a bit inconvenient. If we ran them earlier, as we normally would do, then we would be unable to play the last two MINIs. And that would drive us (because we are excluded) to play more Spycraft, Eclipse Phase, L5R, etc. instead of D&D.
At the end of the day, you look at what to offer and it will cater to some more than others. Having two PAX and one Gen Con be all about "acquisition" is a huge amount of exclusion. 3 out of 5 cons exclude. That's too much.
Moreover, it is too much when it doesn't have to be that way. Gen Con last year would have been in bad shape had it not had ADCP1-1, which really provided a lot of flexibility for organizers. Camp 13 was flooded, but ADCP1-1 could handle overflow and still please everyone else. Exclusion was very low. Awesome! ADCP1-1 ran at PAX Prime, again providing flexibility, in addition to several Gen Con specials. While it takes more effort to make ADCP1-1 scale than not, it is vastly easier than writing x mods. That sort of flexibility should be there.
And, there are other ways to create flexibility. How about a MYRE showcase, with prizes to the mods that are ranked highest? You could even have a celebrity table play the winning adventure at the end of the con. (And yeah, easy for me to sit back and dream up ideas when others are buried by real work. I know. I'm just saying that Gen Con and PAX Prime should have more options for more players. However that can be achieved, I just suspect it can be done.)
Meh on titles. I don't mean to be disrespectful at all, mind you, but "Acquisition" is a lovely bit of business speak. Sure, you want to attract new players... but we had brand new players at D&D XP. We just had far fewer than at Gen Con last year (t
They do have Open Play, so if all you had a mid heroic tier chartacter you wouldn't necessarily be excluded. Sure, it's not a shiny new mod, but if all you have is a mid tier character at this point, chances are good you would play something in open play that you haven't played before. You show up, group with others in the same tier, get assigned a judge who says he run mods x, y, or z, and you go from there. So, I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the exclusion.
They do have Open Play, so if all you had a mid heroic tier chartacter you wouldn't necessarily be excluded. Sure, it's not a shiny new mod, but if all you have is a mid tier character at this point, chances are good you would play something in ope
I do not view Open Play as a great "solution". It is offered once a day at Gen Con. As a person who gets to play LFR at most once a month, my characters are mostly in the 4-7 range now. I come to Gen Con (the only con I get to go to) to get 4 days of LFR and use it as an opportunity to get some significant progression for my main character (who's level 6). With the lack of slot with new adventures and a small number of slots with old adventures for the level ranges at which I can play appearing at Gen Con, my motivation to go is diminished. I'll make the best of it, I guess, but I think it sucks. I guess I'll take the bone that was thrown to us and play the Open play at night and play the MINI twice.
For those of you who say, "It's Gen Con, go play something else." I don't want to. I have no desire to play another system or campaign. Gen Con = LFR for me, and I think the lack of new H2 and H3 material sucks. I suppose next year, if I manage to get into P1 with a character or two, that level band will be phased out in order for new E1 material to be played and I'll still be stuck waiting for Open Play to play those character while more than likely playing H1 adventures for the rest of the Con. Woo Hoo! I feel all warm and fuzzy about that.
I do not view Open Play as a great "solution". It is offered once a day at Gen Con. As a person who gets to play LFR at most once a month, my characters are mostly in the 4-7 range now. I come to Gen Con (the only con I get to go to) to get 4 days of
For those of you who say, "It's Gen Con, go play something else." I don't want to. I have no desire to play another system or campaign. Gen Con = LFR for me, and I think the lack of new H2 and H3 material sucks.
Every time I hear a player say something like this, I die a little inside.
There's a LOT more to roleplaying than what WotC publishes.
Especially at Gen Con, which is STILL a showcase for the entire industry. Travelling all the way there just to play one system seems a massive waste to me.
To each his own, I guess.
But honestly, if you are making the deliberate choice to play only a very narrow area of content, is it really other people's fault if you don't find much to play?
-karma
Every time I hear a player say something like this, I die a little inside.There's a LOT more to roleplaying than what WotC publishes.Especially at Gen Con, which is STILL a showcase for the entire industry. Travelling all the way there just to play o
Karma's right. I get the desire to really do nothing but LFR all weekend -- I go to quite a few cons with that in mind. But Gencon's a bad choice for that purpose. Seriously, do DDXP once a year instead. It's tailored for pure LFR play.
Karma's right. I get the desire to really do nothing but LFR all weekend -- I go to quite a few cons with that in mind. But Gencon's a bad choice for that purpose. Seriously, do DDXP once a year instead. It's tailored for pure LFR play.
Especially at Gen Con, which is STILL a showcase for the entire industry. Travelling all the way there just to play one system seems a massive waste to me.
To each his own, I guess.
My sample size is pretty small, but in the one GenCon that I (just one player) went to a few years back, I played 3-4 non-RPGA/non D&D games, and they were all terrible.
I would steer far far away from non-RPGA RPGs at a big con, unless I knew something specific about a single game (such as knowing the GM personally, or hooking up with online friends). I would NOT again go through the schedule of events picking out ones that look interesting based solely on the description (once bitten twice shy).
I'd be up for some Warhammer, of course, but the time investment is so big that cons for me are either RPGs or Warhammer, not a little of both.
My sample size is pretty small, but in the one GenCon that I (just one player) went to a few years back, I played 3-4 non-RPGA/non D&D games, and they were all terrible.I would steer far far away from non-RPGA RPGs at a big con, unless I knew someth
There's a LOT more to roleplaying than what WotC publishes.
I totally realize this. I have played other systems/campaigns (NASCRAG, Blackmoor, miniature games, etc..) in the past, but I enjoy LFR more, so I have focused on this for the last couple years. I don't have the time or money to invest in playing other systems regularly, so I play what I know interests me. Some free time I left myself is spent demoing browsing the other stuff.
Especially at Gen Con, which is STILL a showcase for the entire industry. Travelling all the way there just to play one system seems a massive waste to me.
It is not just to play one system. It's to play with friends who I only get to play with once a year at Gen Con.
But honestly, if you are making the deliberate choice to play only a very narrow area of content, is it really other people's fault if you don't find much to play?
-karma
Until the events were posted this year (a couple days before event pre-registration), who knew? Last year lead me to believe that new content from all levels of play would appear. (At least specials or ADCP adventures that could be played at all tiers) By the time the catalog came out, my friends and me were committed to going (vacation time requested, hotels, etc...). I'm making the best of it, but I'm a bit disheartend that I'll probably never get my highest level character to a point where I can participate in new LFR material at Gen Con. Going to another convention like DDXP is not really an option for me at this point for various reasons, so I guess I'll just suck it up.
I totally realize this. I have played other systems/campaigns (NASCRAG, Blackmoor, miniature games, etc..) in the past, but I enjoy LFR more, so I have focused on this for the last couple years. I don't have the time or money to invest in playing o
Last year lead me to believe that new content from all levels of play would appear.
Not to sound crass, but right there is your mistake. I remember reading about the level banding before LFR was released an thinking how this would be a problem. I mean there are 9 tiers all together (or will be). There is just no way to offer enough play oppourtunity to accommodate that. It is a built in problem with the system, a very large problem. I guess I am saying that you should not have been lulled by their optmististic attitude.
The mods that span several tiers is the best solution I have seen so far for this problem. But heck some of those were basically separate modules that just happened to have interconnected plots. Personally I would prefer to see more mods for multiple tiers and have fewer mods released vs. more mods released with tighter banding.
Not to sound crass, but right there is your mistake. I remember reading about the level banding before LFR was released an thinking how this would be a problem. I mean there are 9 tiers all together (or will be). There is just no way to offer enoug
Last year lead me to believe that new content from all levels of play would appear.
Not to sound crass, but right there is your mistake. I remember reading about the level banding before LFR was released an thinking how this would be a problem. I mean there are 9 tiers all together (or will be). There is just no way to offer enough play oppourtunity to accommodate that. It is a built in problem with the system, a very large problem. I guess I am saying that you should not have been lulled by their optmististic attitude.
The mods that span several tiers is the best solution I have seen so far for this problem. But heck some of those were basically separate modules that just happened to have interconnected plots. Personally I would prefer to see more mods for multiple tiers and have fewer mods released vs. more mods released with tighter banding.
To be completely fair, the Origins schedule does a much better job of providing play opportunities for all tiers. So it's still possible, even though it probably won't be as easy next year.
What might have helped is better communication. I don't know when this direction was set in stone, but at that point, maybe an announcement: Origins will be your comprehensive LFR con, GenCon will be a lighter schedule, etc. On the other hand, this might have been a fairly late decision based on the schedule problems we've seen.
Not to sound crass, but right there is your mistake. I remember reading about the level banding before LFR was released an thinking how this would be a problem. I mean there are 9 tiers all together (or will be). There is just no way to offer enoug
A thought I had from reading Sartredes post leads me to a totally different question cause I have heard this before from others I have ran across as an event coordinator.
You say that you only get to play LFR at conventions like GenCon but how often have you looked for regional conventions? When my wife and I attended GenCon in 2008 we asked around for places we could play LFR besides GenCon and we were told about Warhorn. its a website that lists regional events so finding a small convention to play lfr as well as possibly a gaming group in your region is easy.
All i can say is I know that there are alot more opportunities out there to play LFR than ance a year and it doesn't take alot of logistics to see it happen.
FYI I personally know of 2 conventions happening in Ohio that are centered around Origins and GenCon.
A thought I had from reading Sartredes post leads me to a totally different question cause I have heard this before from others I have ran across as an event coordinator.You say that you only get to play LFR at conventions like GenCon but how often h
Without much more to go on than the example provided by Gen Con this year, I think the aquisition strategy (H1 and the current top 3 tiers) isn't particularly good.
It takes roughly 2.5-3 adventures to level, so roughly 28 adventures to get to the next tier (level 1 - level 11, 11-21). That means if a person plays the MINI with one character, they have 25 more adventures to get to the point they get to P1. So these aquisitions have to play LFR twice a month with only that character to have a hope of having something new to play at the following Gen Con with that character. How many people just play one character? If these people are being aquired at a non-hardcore con three years after the start of the campaign, do we assume that these players are the "hardcore" that will have and spend the time to get a character up to the new content supported tiers (apparently the top three released tiers). I'm guessing a lot of these aquisitions will find that they are out of the provided new content bands next year with only limited options for play.
If open play using older adventures is the solution, provide that as an option in every time slot.
Without much more to go on than the example provided by Gen Con this year, I think the aquisition strategy (H1 and the current top 3 tiers) isn't particularly good.It takes roughly 2.5-3 adventures to level, so roughly 28 adventures to get to the nex
A thought I had from reading Sartredes post leads me to a totally different question cause I have heard this before from others I have ran across as an event coordinator.
You say that you only get to play LFR at conventions like GenCon but how often have you looked for regional conventions? When my wife and I attended GenCon in 2008 we asked around for places we could play LFR besides GenCon and we were told about Warhorn. its a website that lists regional events so finding a small convention to play lfr as well as possibly a gaming group in your region is easy.
All i can say is I know that there are alot more opportunities out there to play LFR than ance a year and it doesn't take alot of logistics to see it happen.
FYI I personally know of 2 conventions happening in Ohio that are centered around Origins and GenCon.
I didn't say I only get to play LFR at Gen Con, I said I only get to play multi-sessions of LFR at Gen Con. I realize there are smaller regional cons, but I can only go to one con a year. Gen Con is the one distant friends and I meet at to play together. If I could afford the time to play more than once a month outside Gen Con (privately or at smaller cons), I would. Outside Gen Con, multi-day cons, heck, even a single multi-adventure day is just not in my cards in the immediate to near future. I've gone to some local cons, but it's almost always where I get to play one adventure and I leave. I know my situation is probably more limiting than many face.
I didn't say I only get to play LFR at Gen Con, I said I only get to play multi-sessions of LFR at Gen Con. I realize there are smaller regional cons, but I can only go to one con a year. Gen Con is the one distant friends and I meet at to play toget
To be completely fair, the Origins schedule does a much better job of providing play opportunities for all tiers.
I'm not sure that I'd call it "much" better.
The Origins modules, by tier:
H1 DRAG 2-2 ADCP 2-2
H2 ADCP 2-2
H3 LURU 2-2 ADCP 2-2
P1 QUEST 2-1 EAST 2-2 ADCP 2-2
P2 AGLA 2-2 ADCP 2-2
So, it's better from the standpoint of "yes, there's at least one adventure available in each tier" -- I suppose that *is* an improvement from the GenCon schedule, which has absolutely nothing in H2 or H3.
But, if you don't have a Paragon-level PC, you've got a total of 3 adventures you can play (not counting the fact that you *could* potentially play ADCP multiple times, at different tiers). If you're just starting out in LFR, you have a grand total of two adventures available to you.
I'm not sure that I'd call it "much" better.The Origins modules, by tier:H1DRAG 2-2ADCP 2-2H2ADCP 2-2H3LURU 2-2ADCP 2-2P1QUEST 2-1EAST 2-2ADCP 2-2P2AGLA 2-2ADCP 2-2So, it's better from the standpoint of "yes, there's at least one adventure available
I'm not sure you can play ADCP 2-2 at both H2 and H3, actually. But still -- there's something to do if you're H2 or H3, and that alone is a pretty big deal. There's also more than one adventure to play at P1 and P2. What Gencon offers over Origins: two P3 adventures, which is awesome, and the MINI 2 series, which is good but less flexible than the Origins H1 offerings if you care about playing 'em in the right order.
I'm not dissing Gencon; I'm going to Gencon, I've signed up for two LFR events, and I plan to have a great time for the rest of the con doing non-LFR stuff. I'm just saying that Origins has a richer schedule and I'd recommend it over Gencon if you were primarily focused on LFR.
I'm not sure you can play ADCP 2-2 at both H2 and H3, actually. But still -- there's something to do if you're H2 or H3, and that alone is a pretty big deal. There's also more than one adventure to play at P1 and P2. What Gencon offers over Origins:
I'm not sure you can play ADCP 2-2 at both H2 and H3, actually.
Based on Dave C's comment, I don't think you could play it at both H2 and H3 with the same character. But, AFAIK, there'd be nothing keeping you from playing it with one PC at H2, and a different PC at H3...it'd be no different from replaying any LFR adventure with a different PC.
Based on Dave C's comment, I don't think you could play it at both H2 and H3 with the same character. But, AFAIK, there'd be nothing keeping you from playing it with one PC at H2, and a different PC at H3...it'd be no different from replaying any L
I'm not sure you can play ADCP 2-2 at both H2 and H3, actually.
Based on Dave C's comment, I don't think you could play it at both H2 and H3 with the same character. But, AFAIK, there'd be nothing keeping you from playing it with one PC at H2, and a different PC at H3...it'd be no different from replaying any LFR adventure with a different PC.
Oh, that's definitely so.
Based on Dave C's comment, I don't think you could play it at both H2 and H3 with the same character. But, AFAIK, there'd be nothing keeping you from playing it with one PC at H2, and a different PC at H3...it'd be no different from replaying any L
As I have said several times before. They should have kept the APL system from LG. The only difference from how LG did it that I think LFR should have done it is provide a 4th pdf in the module download, with that pdf being a pdf of the monsters for the module.
i.e Tracker, Rewards, Module, Monsters
This way a GM could print out only the correct APL level monsters when he runs. But oh well.
As I have said several times before. They should have kept the APL system from LG. The only difference from how LG did it that I think LFR should have done it is provide a 4th pdf in the module download, with that pdf being a pdf of the monsters
It is an illusion to think that wider level bands help in this regard. First of all, it created odd story situations where you had simple bandits attack the farm at level 1 and fiendish tyranosauri at level 12. Secondly, it was a lot of work on the author and developers/reviewers and while monster stats are definitely easier in 4E than 3E it is still not instant work. It was also hard on DMs' preperation. Most importantly though, it only slightly lessened the table-forming/adventure availability issues, but it had its own problems (social pressure for PCs of widely seperate levels to join at the same table) and at mid-sized and smaller cons it was still very difficult to get tables formed. The only thing it did make easier was writing multi-part adventures, but in LG that came with its own issues
It is an illusion to think that wider level bands help in this regard. First of all, it created odd story situations where you had simple bandits attack the farm at level 1 and fiendish tyranosauri at level 12. Secondly, it was a lot of work on the a
It is an illusion to think that wider level bands help in this regard.
Just for the record I was reffering more to mods that include more than 1 tier. Like Paladin's Plague. I may have been unclear by using the term level banding. I meant the levels of play available for any given mod.
First of all, it created odd story situations where you had simple bandits attack the farm at level 1 and fiendish tyranosauri at level 12.
Seriously? Your reasoning is the creation of odd situations. It would be easier to count the mods that do not have odd situations. Let's just hope you do not also rule out contived plots or rehashed story lines. Ther would be nothign left.
Secondly, it was a lot of work on the author and developers/reviewers and while monster stats are definitely easier in 4E than 3E it is still not instant work.
Fewer mods + wider range of play = a similar amount of work.
Umm how do you figure? Preping a mod with 3 tiers (6 possible combats) is easier than preping 6 different mods. And preping one tier is the same as preping 1 mod.
but it had its own problems (social pressure for PCs of widely seperate levels to join at the same table) and at mid-sized and smaller cons it was still very difficult to get tables formed.
As opposed to now, where at midsized and smaller cons it is very difficult to get tables formed. Oh wait that would be the exact same.
The only thing it did make easier was writing multi-part adventures, but in LG that came with its own issues
I am assuming you are talking about storyline and plot. Yeah those were awful. *sarcasm*
Just for the record I was reffering more to mods that include more than 1 tier. Like Paladin's Plague. I may have been unclear by using the term level banding. I meant the levels of play available for any given mod. Seriously? Your reasoning is the
The only thing it did make easier was writing multi-part adventures, but in LG that came with its own issues
I am assuming you are talking about storyline and plot. Yeah those were awful. *sarcasm*
I was not, but whatever... (and considering the amount of plots and storylines I designed and developed for LG in my 8 years as Triad and Circle Member that would be rediculous to say.)
I am assuming you are talking about storyline and plot. Yeah those were awful. *sarcasm*I was not, but whatever... (and considering the amount of plots and storylines I designed and developed for LG in my 8 years as Triad and Circle Member that would
I'm pretty sure that fewer mods with wider level ranges isn't going to solve any problems.
- It would be a similar amount of work overall, but that work would be spread out over fewer people, putting a larger burden on a few rather than a smaller burden on many. If one of these mega adventures was late, it would have a much more significant impact.
- Now, when we play a "bad" adventure, we can move on - there are many more adventures to choose from. If we had fewer adventures but for multiple level bands, we'd feel more impacted by the bad ones. This is a double-edged sword - we'd also feel more impacted by the good ones.
- Fewer adventures for a wider audience creates the same number of play opportunities at all level bands, but it doesn't do a while lot for story depth. You have fewer stories overall, which reduces the flavor of the campaign significantly.
I could go on, but in short, I think the idea is an awful one. Furthermore, having both written and organized for LG, I fully support all of Pieter's points. Let's face it, the guy knows what he's talking about.
I'm pretty sure that fewer mods with wider level ranges isn't going to solve any problems.- It would be a similar amount of work overall, but that work would be spread out over fewer people, putting a larger burden on a few rather than a smaller burd
- Fewer adventures for a wider audience creates the same number of play opportunities at all level bands, but it doesn't do a while lot for story depth. You have fewer stories overall, which reduces the flavor of the campaign significantly.
No, this is what I vehemently disagree with. One of the biggest problems with LFR is that it is nearly impossible to play any sort of cohesive campaign. You are just playing a whole bunch of random adventures that have nothing to do with each other. Trying to have a character follow a plot line or story arc is next to impossible. (The few that exist) I had to stop playing my primary character for a long time just to keep him from leveling in order to play the (Zhent story arc) specials. I had to metagame XP rewards to make certain I could play the story arc with out leveling out in the middle.
The currently problem is that there are so many stories that the campaign has no flavor. There are no consistant NPC's and story rewards do not matter. Heck I quit tracking them a long time ago and it has never mattered, good or bad. How many time have you heard this? Anyone have story reward X? Yeah, but not with this character.
Actions by the PC have no impact. Why do they care if they upset (or please) Mr. NPC when it will never matter in the future. And without a story arc to follow there can be nothign to reveal and nothing for people to anxiously await.
These are the things LFR is missing. These are the things I am missing.
No, this is what I vehemently disagree with. One of the biggest problems with LFR is that it is nearly impossible to play any sort of cohesive campaign. You are just playing a whole bunch of random adventures that have nothing to do with each other.
I see your point, but I think it takes time for these things to grow. Think of all of these adventures as planted seeds. Out of these seeds, a few great storylines can begin to develop. I've seen some of what's coming - there are definitely some concrete, compelling storylines developing in a few places.
Since you so fondly recollect LG, consider where LG was in Year 2 -- it was still pretty chaotic. It wasn't until Year 3/4 that things really began to take off.
I see your point, but I think it takes time for these things to grow. Think of all of these adventures as planted seeds. Out of these seeds, a few great storylines can begin to develop. I've seen some of what's coming - there are definitely some conc
Hey, even in year 2, Bissel was pretty fun. You had some genuine cohesive nature to your region, such as the intrusion of the Gran March, the threat of Evard, the role of outside influences, how much to contribute to Geoff, the recent changes with Ket... there was some serious stuff going down... and that's before it "got good"!
I do see good things happening in story in LFR. I truly don't know the answer to this, but I wonder how good it can get with the current system. I still fall back on my primary (do people even still use that term much?) PC being from the East Rift but only playing 5 out of 38 adventures in the East Rift.. and that's with a major concerted effort. I just don't see story being significant. Let's look at my distribution for Drom: EAST = 5 LURU = 1 WATE = 3 IMPI=3 DALE=1 CORM=1 AKAN=3 MOON=3 DRAG=1 TYMA=2 BALD=1 CORE = the rest
Now let's look at the story arcs based on the bottom of this page. It shocked me to no end to find out that my main PC has played all of one story arc (SPEC1-1 and 1-2). I recall trying to get a few story arcs (I wanted to do QUES1-1, the MOON one, etc.) but it never happened. It is unbelievable to me. No wonder Drom feels so separated from his sworn mission to protect the East Rift. Not only is he not spending time there, but he has pretty much no reason at all to have been anywhere else! It's a grab-bag of nonsensical quests and random happenstance. It has not been very "campaign" for Drom, even if often it has been "living".
All of this to say that I go back to what I have said before.
We need to shed some regions. Shut 2-3 down and focus on story.
Fewer mods as well, because we do not need 160+ adventures. We just don't need that many when you can replay. The campaign should look at real demographics and not the needs of the vocal few. The real demographic is likely in the H2 or H3 range - those are the needs of the majority. And while some may not cry for story or RP, it is what retains players.
While I want to check out P3 as much as any hardcore player, it really isn't more important than quality adventures. I would be happy to shelve P3 and see a more inclusive schedule at Gen Con.
Hey, even in year 2, Bissel was pretty fun. You had some genuine cohesive nature to your region, such as the intrusion of the Gran March, the threat of Evard, the role of outside influences, how much to contribute to Geoff, the recent changes with Ke
One of the biggest problems with LFR is that it is nearly impossible to play any sort of cohesive campaign. You are just playing a whole bunch of random adventures that have nothing to do with each other. Trying to have a character follow a plot line or story arc is next to impossible. (The few that exist) I had to stop playing my primary character for a long time just to keep him from leveling in order to play the (Zhent story arc) specials. I had to metagame XP rewards to make certain I could play the story arc with out leveling out in the middle.
You say this as if this is unique to LFR. This happened to people in LG as well, especially in the early years.
You say this as if this is unique to LFR. This happened to people in LG as well, especially in the early years.
Yeah, it took a while. Years, in some regions. We learned a lot over time.
Is there any reason we can't take the best of what we learned from LG on fun, immersion, and community, and apply it to LFR?
Or do we have to throw everything out, start all over and make all the same mistakes again?
-np
Yeah, it took a while. Years, in some regions. We learned a lot over time.Is there any reason we can't take the best of what we learned from LG on fun, immersion, and community, and apply it to LFR?Or do we have to throw everything out, start all ove
One of the biggest problems with LFR is that it is nearly impossible to play any sort of cohesive campaign. You are just playing a whole bunch of random adventures that have nothing to do with each other. Trying to have a character follow a plot line or story arc is next to impossible. (The few that exist) I had to stop playing my primary character for a long time just to keep him from leveling in order to play the (Zhent story arc) specials. I had to metagame XP rewards to make certain I could play the story arc with out leveling out in the middle.
You say this as if this is unique to LFR. This happened to people in LG as well, especially in the early years.
Yeah, it took a while. Years, in some regions. We learned a lot over time.
Is there any reason we can't take the best of what we learned from LG on fun, immersion, and community, and apply it to LFR?
Or do we have to throw everything out, start all over and make all the same mistakes again?
-np
It strikes me as getting lost in ones own house.
You say this as if this is unique to LFR. This happened to people in LG as well, especially in the early years.Karma's answer echo my own thoughts.It strikes me as getting lost in ones own house.
Hey, even in year 2, Bissel was pretty fun. You had some genuine cohesive nature to your region, such as the intrusion of the Gran March, the threat of Evard, the role of outside influences, how much to contribute to Geoff, the recent changes with Ket... there was some serious stuff going down... and that's before it "got good"!
I do see good things happening in story in LFR. I truly don't know the answer to this, but I wonder how good it can get with the current system. I still fall back on my primary (do people even still use that term much?) PC being from the East Rift but only playing 5 out of 38 adventures in the East Rift.. and that's with a major concerted effort. I just don't see story being significant. Let's look at my distribution for Drom: EAST = 5 LURU = 1 WATE = 3 IMPI=3 DALE=1 CORM=1 AKAN=3 MOON=3 DRAG=1 TYMA=2 BALD=1 CORE = the rest
Now let's look at the story arcs based on the bottom of this page. It shocked me to no end to find out that my main PC has played all of one story arc (SPEC1-1 and 1-2). I recall trying to get a few story arcs (I wanted to do QUES1-1, the MOON one, etc.) but it never happened. It is unbelievable to me. No wonder Drom feels so separated from his sworn mission to protect the East Rift. Not only is he not spending time there, but he has pretty much no reason at all to have been anywhere else! It's a grab-bag of nonsensical quests and random happenstance. It has not been very "campaign" for Drom, even if often it has been "living".
All of this to say that I go back to what I have said before.
We need to shed some regions. Shut 2-3 down and focus on story.
Fewer mods as well, because we do not need 160+ adventures. We just don't need that many when you can replay. The campaign should look at real demographics and not the needs of the vocal few. The real demographic is likely in the H2 or H3 range - those are the needs of the majority. And while some may not cry for story or RP, it is what retains players.
While I want to check out P3 as much as any hardcore player, it really isn't more important than quality adventures. I would be happy to shelve P3 and see a more inclusive schedule at Gen Con.
I agree with all of this. Alpha is just better at expressing it than I am.
Incidentally , my "primary" character is also from East Rift.
I agree with all of this. Alpha is just better at expressing it than I am.Incidentally , my "primary" character is also from East Rift.
The Global Admins are considering the option of reducing the number of regions starting in 2011 as well as other changes to the campaign. Some of their ideas have been submitted to WotC and we are waiting on feedback/approval/disapproval.
Keith
The Global Admins are considering the option of reducing the number of regions starting in 2011 as well as other changes to the campaign. Some of their ideas have been submitted to WotC and we are waiting on feedback/approval/disapproval.Keith
Hey, even in year 2, Bissel was pretty fun. You had some genuine cohesive nature to your region, such as the intrusion of the Gran March, the threat of Evard, the role of outside influences, how much to contribute to Geoff, the recent changes with Ket... there was some serious stuff going down... and that's before it "got good"!
I do see good things happening in story in LFR. I truly don't know the answer to this, but I wonder how good it can get with the current system. I still fall back on my primary (do people even still use that term much?) PC being from the East Rift but only playing 5 out of 38 adventures in the East Rift.. and that's with a major concerted effort. I just don't see story being significant.
Isn't that in part to three things: Your main character comes from a region where story arcs are at a very low level at the moment. They haven't even had a major quest start yet as far as I can tell.
You made up your main character before you knew what your region's story was going to be like. You want to protect the East Rift, but the East Rift isn't focused on that kind of story.
You started play before there were enough mods to have the choice of leveling by concentrating on an area. If you started now, you could easily play a character who exclusively played EAST, TYMA, and AKAN. I'm not sure that's the best set of regions for concentrated play as they don't have a lot of arcs going on.
-----------
Think about what would have happened had you played your main character starting out in Waterdeep or Dalelands?
Isn't that in part to three things:Your main character comes from a region where story arcs are at a very low level at the moment. They haven't even had a major quest start yet as far as I can tell.You made up your main character before you knew what
Hey, even in year 2, Bissel was pretty fun. You had some genuine cohesive nature to your region, such as the intrusion of the Gran March, the threat of Evard, the role of outside influences, how much to contribute to Geoff, the recent changes with Ket... there was some serious stuff going down... and that's before it "got good"!
I do see good things happening in story in LFR. I truly don't know the answer to this, but I wonder how good it can get with the current system. I still fall back on my primary (do people even still use that term much?) PC being from the East Rift but only playing 5 out of 38 adventures in the East Rift.. and that's with a major concerted effort. I just don't see story being significant.
Isn't that in part to three things: Your main character comes from a region where story arcs are at a very low level at the moment. They haven't even had a major quest start yet as far as I can tell.
You made up your main character before you knew what your region's story was going to be like. You want to protect the East Rift, but the East Rift isn't focused on that kind of story.
You started play before there were enough mods to have the choice of leveling by concentrating on an area. If you started now, you could easily play a character who exclusively played EAST, TYMA, and AKAN. I'm not sure that's the best set of regions for concentrated play as they don't have a lot of arcs going on.
-----------
Think about what would have happened had you played your main character starting out in Waterdeep or Dalelands?
I have a PC from Waterdeep. It was my second PC and is now 16th. I have played 3 of 38 adventures in Waterdeep, completing the Necromancer quest arc. I have completed a two-mod AGLA Something Smells story arc and the 2-mod Missing Children core arc, for a total of three completed arcs. That's probably the most arcs of any PC.
My other PCs have not fared any better, regardless of whether they are recent or old PCs. I am working on playing DRAG with my rogue, but she has just the 3 out of 24 adventures in that region.
Isn't that in part to three things:Your main character comes from a region where story arcs are at a very low level at the moment. They haven't even had a major quest start yet as far as I can tell.You made up your main character before you knew what
I have a PC from Waterdeep. It was my second PC and is now 16th. I have played 3 of 38 adventures in Waterdeep, completing the Necromancer quest arc. I have completed a two-mod AGLA Something Smells story arc and the 2-mod Missing Children core arc, for a total of three completed arcs. That's probably the most arcs of any PC.
My other PCs have not fared any better, regardless of whether they are recent or old PCs. I am working on playing DRAG with my rogue, but she has just the 3 out of 24 adventures in that region.
But think about if you started LFR right now, knowing roughly how much you would play the mods and having a general idea from a friend "Hey, here are where the better LFR mods are."
One of the things I'm doing is making 3 H1 characters who have specific mods that they're supposed to play.
Huilliam: Barbarian 3 - plays any mods but the following 6 regions. Ava Lumineiri: Psion|Avenger 2 - plays DALE, CORM, DRAG mods. Will play the Ravens Bluff MINI mods at GenCon because that's right near Dalelands. (to be made by Tuesday, probably some sort of hybrid) - plays WATE, BALD, and MOON. My Sword Coast character.
I expect that they'll level relatively slowly compared to normal, but I think I'll have a lot of opportunity to concentrate on that regional feel as a result. As I'm my group's organizer, I'll have the ability to help my group probably move down that path...
But think about if you started LFR right now, knowing roughly how much you would play the mods and having a general idea from a friend "Hey, here are where the better LFR mods are."One of the things I'm doing is making 3 H1 characters who have specif
But think about if you started LFR right now, knowing roughly how much you would play the mods and having a general idea from a friend "Hey, here are where the better LFR mods are."
That assumes that choosing adventures is my only constraint. See, I hate replaying. So, my top priority as a player is to try something new. A new H3 comes out, and it is in Waterdeep. My Waterdeep PC is 16, so let's look at who we have that can play it. Well, my Invoker hasn't played it, and has one other Waterdeep mod, so I'll play it with them.
Next mod comes out and so on and before you know it you end up with PCs that have played all over the map.
Holding a PC just for a series is a possibility. From what I hear, it sounds like many others are in my shoes - I will hold a PC back for a good series, but I won't otherwise. And, I won't wait forever. I really like playing my psion, who is at MINI1-5. I am waiting on some buddies to resume play, but we last played many moons ago (we had planned it for the release date, then had things crop up and could not play it once it released late). Every now and then I consider ditching and just playing something else, but so far I've waited on my group. I held my rogue back for DRAG1-5 and -6 for a couple of months even though I really want to get her to paragon, all based on how strong and fun that series was.
If I look at most of the story arcs, they aren't worth my waiting months. But, again, this is all due to the system.
Here is how my regional career went for my first/primary LG PC, Krelor Deepforge (who would go on to retire and become the head of a sub-region in Geoff): 8 Geoff adventures in a row, 4 core, 1 Geoff, 4 core, 1 adapted to Geoff, 8 Geoff, 2 Keoland, 1 Geoff, 3 core, 5 Geoff, 1 core, 5 Geoff, 5 core (Winter Fantasy convention), 3 Geoff, etc.
This equals: 32 in the region of Geoff 17 core 2 Keoland.
That is how you create a living story! Yes!
For comparison, let's take a look at my tertiary PC, the weathered and ancient Flan monk, Weary Fox. Weary had the primary region of Keoland, created for the times I would go up there. Over time I came to really like Bissel, so he was my main PC for trips to cons there. I would sometimes play him when I traveled. So, here is how he began his carrer: Bissel 1 Keoland 3 Nyrond 2 Bissel 8 core 2 Keoland 4 BK 4 Bissel 1 Onnwal 1 Nyrond 2 core 2 Bissel1 Keoland 1 core 1 keoland 3 Bissel 1
Total for Weary Fox: Bissel 12 Keoland 11 Core 5 BK 4 Nyrond 4 Onnwal 1
While Weary was weary with travel, he still managed to keep the vast majority of his play in the regions he liked.
It is no wonder at all that my play in LG is so full of memorable story. The contrast between my ability to play in region vs out of region with LG vs LFR is incredible!
Edit: I almost failed to note a really important point that just dawned on me. As I was looking over my ARs, every out-of-region mod was really memorable. Onnwal, "hey, that's where I picked up the tankard of Wenta!. BK, "oh, that mod, boy, did my heroism surprise those BK players!" The cores as well ("ah, the Brendigund series!"). It dawned on me that because out-of-region play was infrequent, the core and other regional adventures actually left their mark. They were different and you noted the differences and enjoyed them. The current LFR is a stir fry that leaves nothing as distinct.
That assumes that choosing adventures is my only constraint. See, I hate replaying. So, my top priority as a player is to try something new. A new H3 comes out, and it is in Waterdeep. My Waterdeep PC is 16, so let's look at who we have that can play
The Global Admins are considering the option of reducing the number of regions starting in 2011 as well as other changes to the campaign. Some of their ideas have been submitted to WotC and we are waiting on feedback/approval/disapproval.
Keith
I hope that starting character above one is not a change. (Yes I know theres another thread)
So far the changes are making me worry much more than hope. Thats an honest statement not hyperbole.
I hope that starting character above one is not a change. (Yes I know theres another thread)So far the changes are making me worry much more than hope. Thats an honest statement not hyperbole.
But think about if you started LFR right now, knowing roughly how much you would play the mods and having a general idea from a friend "Hey, here are where the better LFR mods are."
That assumes that choosing adventures is my only constraint. See, I hate replaying. So, my top priority as a player is to try something new. A new H3 comes out, and it is in Waterdeep. My Waterdeep PC is 16, so let's look at who we have that can play it. Well, my Invoker hasn't played it, and has one other Waterdeep mod, so I'll play it with them.
As you know, I hate replaying too. But there are roughly 120 something mods/year. You could go to 6 conventions and play 6 mods each and then on top of it play a mod a week, and you're really only coming close to 3/4s of the available mods.
People really do have the ability to say, "Hey, there are more mods than I can play. I'm going to set up characters designed to wait on the mods to come out." - 3 regions seems to be the right number for focused play.
My LFR is usually limited to once a week, a saturday game about once every two months, and about two conventions. I know I'm not playing everything, so I don't have to rush to play things as soon as they come out.
Edit: I almost failed to note a really important point that just dawned on me. As I was looking over my ARs, every out-of-region mod was really memorable.
By definition, though, you're usually meeting a whole bunch of new players and learning how the rest of the world plays D&D. Almost any mod can be more exciting in that context, especially when you surprise them or they surprise you. And most people going to conventions are more serious about gaming. I'm pretty good with codes. At a battle interactive for the last Weekend in Dyvers, I shocked the table by decoding the coded message we found in real time. As in I read the 1st 5-6 words or so out loud as soon as the DM showed it to us. The expression on the DM's face will stay with me a long time.
When you play out of region now, odds are you are playing with the groups of people you normally play with for the most part...so you miss out on some of that surprise and shock value.
That assumes that choosing adventures is my only constraint. See, I hate replaying. So, my top priority as a player is to try something new. A new H3 comes out, and it is in Waterdeep. My Waterdeep PC is 16, so let's look at who we have that can play
Yeah, it took a while. Years, in some regions. We learned a lot over time.
Is there any reason we can't take the best of what we learned from LG on fun, immersion, and community, and apply it to LFR?
Or do we have to throw everything out, start all over and make all the same mistakes again?
Well, if you form community and immersion then you are a "hardcore elitist gamer" who doesn't want new poeple to experience the campaign and whose cliqish hate-mongering behavior knows no bounds. At least according to the thread discussing starting characters over 1st level.
In all seriousness, I feel the issue on immersion was a bad combination between regions releasing 1/2 as many mods per year than they did in LG (It's hard to get much goign with a 4+1 release schedule for a region per year) and to top it off, the first year was focusing more on trying to release a wide variety of mods to allow peopel to advance instead of keeping the campaign progressing more linearly. Our first wave of mods was H1, next set was H2, next was H3, etc. Add to the combo that all of the story arcs jumped level bands and it made it worse. You did the first part in H1, 2nd part was in H2, and third was in H3.
Well, if you form community and immersion then you are a "hardcore elitist gamer" who doesn't want new poeple to experience the campaign and whose cliqish hate-mongering behavior knows no bounds. At least according to the thread discussing starting
If you are thinking of reducing mods, please consider cutting the "CORE" series so that more focus can be placed on the regional adventures. 12 regions was spreading the campaign, and adding the CORE just spreads it out even more.
I like the thought of a dedicated regional reviewer maintaining the flavor across a region. Continue to do this.
If you are keeping any CORE, please consider using them to "set-up" cross-regional quests/arcs/etc.
Save the other regions for SPECs, ADAPs, and MINIs.
If you are thinking of reducing mods, please consider cutting the "CORE" series so that more focus can be placed on the regional adventures. 12 regions was spreading the campaign, and adding the CORE just spreads it out even more.I like the thought
I'd go the other way than Uthrac. Core adventures are a good way to bring up "global" threats and to play in areas other than the main regions. As much as folks might not like loosing their favorite region I'd really stick with removing one or more of the regions. You could even consolidate regions rather than loosing them entirely.
Of course, that's only if you're going to try and reduce the region count or try to consolidate staff for some reason.
I'd go the other way than Uthrac. Core adventures are a good way to bring up "global" threats and to play in areas other than the main regions. As much as folks might not like loosing their favorite region I'd really stick with removing one or more o
Rambling, random thoughts on stuff I'd like to see -
Recurring threats to the Realm.
As things seem to me now, you have one or two mods, then BAM! threats gone and you get the quest reward.
Now, if we could have lots of mods where this threat was just lurking in the background (example: That daughter your rescuing was kidnapped by thugs trying to prove themselves to the Zhents). Mods dealing with parts of the threat (Example: Zhents chasing gnolls into another area and then seeking employment to kill those gnolls.) Which finally lead up to a big confrontation (Zhent Special). Instead of the few mods we had leading up to it.
Do think the "In Slumber Remains" quest line is doing a little better with the for-shadowing. Would be fun to see some mods actually dealing with the separate tasks. (Something along the lines of a scholar interested in the moldy tome and thinks there's a ruin that can help him figure it out - need adventures.)
OK, enough rambling.
Rambling, random thoughts on stuff I'd like to see -Recurring threats to the Realm.As things seem to me now, you have one or two mods, then BAM! threats gone and you get the quest reward.Now, if we could have lots of mods where this threat was just l
I'd go the other way than Uthrac. Core adventures are a good way to bring up "global" threats and to play in areas other than the main regions. As much as folks might not like loosing their favorite region I'd really stick with removing one or more of the regions. You could even consolidate regions rather than loosing them entirely.
Of course, that's only if you're going to try and reduce the region count or try to consolidate staff for some reason.
Frankly, I think that Heroic tier modules should all be local regional adventures, Paragon tier modules should be regional adventures linked with other regions, and Epic tier modules should be core adventures that span multiple regions.
Throw in the occasional exception if you like, but I'm not really sure that level 3 adventurers should really be part of multiple-region-spanning story arcs in 4E - that is clearly a paragon thing.
Frankly, I think that Heroic tier modules should all be local regional adventures, Paragon tier modules should be regional adventures linked with other regions, and Epic tier modules should be core adventures that span multiple regions.Throw in the o
I'm not a big fan of core adventures as a concept. They really work best as spot visits to fantastic/iconic locales. But, any core that just happens to be in place x and could be instead in place y...
I would really like Cores to take a back seat to regionals. While I get the globe-threat concept of Epic, there is no reason why it can't be based in a region and impacting others. Abolethic Sovereignty is a good example: It can happen in any of several Sea of Fallen Stars and can certainly be regional/meta-regional, but a large enough threat affects the whole Realms. It can still be a regional adventure.
Ok, getting on a plane and out of touch (probably) for the week.
I'm not a big fan of core adventures as a concept. They really work best as spot visits to fantastic/iconic locales. But, any core that just happens to be in place x and could be instead in place y... I would really like Cores to take a back seat to
I don't have any news on the backlog, but I have overhead the Globals discussing bits and pieces of the problem. I'll ask for an official quote on the matter, but I know it's something that's very much on their minds right now.
Poke on the backlog question. All of this other discussion is kind of interesting, but ultimately pointless if modules don't get released. What is going on?
Poke on the backlog question. All of this other discussion is kind of interesting, but ultimately pointless if modules don't get released. What is going on?
Poke on the backlog question. All of this other discussion is kind of interesting, but ultimately pointless if modules don't get released. What is going on?
In short, we *have* had several modules come out over the past few weeks; it does look like the logjam is beginning to break up.
The issue has been covered, in depth, in numerous threads in the "LFR Adventures" sub-forum, including this thread:community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...In short, we *have* had several modules come out over the past few weeks; it does look like
