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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 11:58AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2005
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Feat tax worth it at level 1 
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 12:54PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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I'm looking more at the feat tax, not the actual gold being spent.
A large number of my melee PCs grab a Superior Weapon at level 1 or 2, so I guess it's not any worse for a Superior Implement. I don't think it's a tax in this case.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 1:26PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2004
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Superior Implements are, in most cases, better than superior weapons.
All superior implements can give +1 to hit over normal implements (except Tomes).
Superior Greataxe (Execution Axe), nope.
Superior Maul (Mordenkrad), nope.
Superior Greatsword (Fullblade), nope.
Superior Longsword (Bastard Sword), nope.
Superior Warhammer (Craghammer), nope.
Superior Battleaxe (War Axe), nope.
A character wielding any of these weapons can easily do without a superior weapon until epic since they only increase average damage by 1 per [W]. +1 to hit is far better than +1 damage.
Unless you're a tome wizard Superior Implement Proficiency is a tax.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 1:27PM
#14
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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If I squint and hope that accurate doesn't make up 90% of the superior implements, I can even figure that they're more flavorful than superior weapons.
It would be neat if more of your feats should be used for odd or interesting things, instead of, say, +1 attack here, +1 damage there, ad nauseam. I really wish dnd weren't so based around specialization in a specific form of weapon/implement - I miss when going from a +3 sword to a +4 axe was an actual thing you did. But, eh, a bit off topic there.
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 4:31PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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It's not a feat tax. You can get by just fine with Expertise with normal implements. It isn't necessary to "correct the math" as people had said expertise was needed for. It's an extra bonus.
Although any more if there's a feat that adds a bonus to hit or AC it's automatically labelled a feat tax.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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3 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:36AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2006
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Yea, a feat tax IMO is a feat that you have to take to make the math of the game work. So expertise, paragon defenses, etc... Superior Implement Proficiency is a really good feat, maybe even OPed. But I hate it when people throw the words feat tax around.
BTW, Greatspear does give a +1 to attacks vs its military cousin, longspear.
But otherwise, Ferol has a point about superior weapons and superior implements not being that similiar. I could see +1 vs a certain defense and only that defense(should have just stuck with that) rather than +1 to all attacks.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:49AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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But otherwise, Ferol has a point about superior weapons and superior implements not being that similiar. I could see +1 vs a certain defense and only that defense(should have just stuck with that) rather than +1 to all attacks.
Supposedly, the default for weapon-users is a weapon with a +2 proficiency bonus.
Not all military weapons have accurate superior versions because, for many of them, you're getting the accurate property for free already.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:54AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2004
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Yea, a feat tax IMO is a feat that you have to take to make the math of the game work. So expertise, paragon defenses, etc... Superior Implement Proficiency is a really good feat, maybe even OPed. But I hate it when people throw the words feat tax around.
You're right. It's not a actual 'tax' but it's still crummy because its a feat that is so overwhelmingly good that the vast majority of players will have to take it. That, IMO, is poor design.
BTW, Greatspear does give a +1 to attacks vs its military cousin, longspear.
Please read my post again. I said, "in most cases". There are a few weapons where upgrading from military to superior does give a bonus to attacks. Most do not.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:59AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2006
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I didnt say it wasnt poor design that the feat is that good. But it isn't neccessary to make the game function. Yes you did say that in "most cases" superior implements are better than superior weapons, but to be fair, having a proficiency to hit is generally better than not having one.(When you have the best possible attack bonus as a caster and miss on a 14 on the die, where as a weapon user, you would hit on an 11-12, you see these things).
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3 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2010 - 11:02AM
#20
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Great Axe to Executioner and Maul to Mordenkrad is a prime example. You're only playing up for the Brutal property.
I temporary took this feat for my Sorceress thanks to the Dragon article. Hopefully a new P2 mod comes out before I'm nerfed.
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