|
3 years ago ::
Mar 13, 2010 - 6:51PM
#21
|
Date Joined:
Feb 11, 2006
|
Good point. A magic item is not required as the receiver of transfer enchantment, it's actually the last thing that you should ever do with transfer enchantment. Want to transfer the +2 flaming from your longsword to your +1 bastard sword? Transfer it to a newly bought normal bastard sword and just sell your +1 bastard sword, no reason at all to waste the +1 magic you already have.
So following the lenient interpretation of access you could always get any item of your level and less for just 25 gp + costs of non-magical base item
But nothing prevents this from happening in a home game, correct?
I think I failed to consider that possibility because the way the "trick" was described to me, you'd have to add on the difference in cost between two items of different levels. So, to boost a lv5 to a lv6 using Transfer Enchantment and "access" would cost (1,800-1,000)+25=825gp.
That's an excellent point though. I'm almost mad that I didn't think of it at the time.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Mar 13, 2010 - 7:56PM
#22
|
Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
|
A home game is a whole different ball of wax. (i.e. a true home game, not a private LFGR game played at someone's home) The DM can do whatever he wants in a hoem game. In LFR, that's not the case. There is no ritual that will allow you to change an enchantment on an item in 4e. To change an enchantment requires disenchanting one item and creating a new one via EMI.
EMI can be used to upgrade the bonus on an item, or to grant an enchantment (or property if you like that term, 4e seems to use the two interchangeably) when all it has is a bonus. Transfer just moves from one item to another.
So I'm not sure what you mean about upgrading froma lvl 5 to a lvl 6. In general that isn't possible either because the enchantment is by + in which case they are 5 levels apart (+1 item is lvl 1, +2 is lvl 6 and so on) or they are leveled by tier in which case it's a 10 level jump. As such, there technically isn't any lvl5 to 6 upgrade that can be done with EMI (not transfer, because remember, transfer doesn't create or change, only move).
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Mar 14, 2010 - 1:40PM
#23
|
Date Joined:
Feb 11, 2006
|
A home game is a whole different ball of wax. (i.e. a true home game, not a private LFGR game played at someone's home) The DM can do whatever he wants in a hoem game. In LFR, that's not the case. There is no ritual that will allow you to change an enchantment on an item in 4e. To change an enchantment requires disenchanting one item and creating a new one via EMI.
EMI can be used to upgrade the bonus on an item, or to grant an enchantment (or property if you like that term, 4e seems to use the two interchangeably) when all it has is a bonus. Transfer just moves from one item to another.
So I'm not sure what you mean about upgrading froma lvl 5 to a lvl 6. In general that isn't possible either because the enchantment is by + in which case they are 5 levels apart (+1 item is lvl 1, +2 is lvl 6 and so on) or they are leveled by tier in which case it's a 10 level jump. As such, there technically isn't any lvl5 to 6 upgrade that can be done with EMI (not transfer, because remember, transfer doesn't create or change, only move).
Yeah, you're completely right. I was just describing the way that Transfer Enchantment is being used by those people in my LFR group.
When I said "home game," I meant playing the rules completely by letter. So, if a group of PCs was able to sneak into a powerful wizard's house and get 1 hour without being found, they could use TE to strip the enchantment off his powerful +6 wand or whatever without having to steal the item.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Mar 14, 2010 - 2:27PM
#24
|
|
|
But nothing prevents this from happening in a home game, correct?
You mean except that the RPGA CCG, on whose unfortunate phrase this whole argument is based, has absolutely no meaning for a homegame?
I think I failed to consider that possibility because the way the "trick" was described to me, you'd have to add on the difference in cost between two items of different levels. So, to boost a lv5 to a lv6 using Transfer Enchantment and "access" would cost (1,800-1,000)+25=825gp.
Actually that would be unnecessary. TE has no "difference cost", only EMI has. So if you assume that "access" is meant in the necessary way you would get the new enchantment without having to pay the difference, as the TE ritual doesn't have a different cost clause.
So, if a group of PCs was able to sneak into a powerful wizard's house and get 1 hour without being found, they could use TE to strip the enchantment off his powerful +6 wand or whatever without having to steal the item.
Why would they do this? Nothing but a waste of time, just grap the wand and leave. It's not as if the wizard would be any less angry when you leave him an ordinary wand instead of no wand at all.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 2:27AM
#25
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
|
But if such "shopkeepers" did in fact exist, why can't I just trade my +2 Elven Cloak straight up for a +2 BoB? They both have the same value.
Because:
a) your cloak is used
b) shopkeepers want to make a profit.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 7:35AM
#26
|
|
|
Because:
a) your cloak is used
b) shopkeepers want to make a profit.
Indeed. In a world in which the standing value which such a shopkeeper would give you for buying your used magic item is 20%, why would you expect a 1-for-1 trade?
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 7:37AM
#27
|
Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2007
|
You can't use the Transfer Enchantment ritual to create a different enchantment/property/etc. All you can do is move it (transfer it) to a different object of the same general type (weapon, etc).
I don't see any reason why you couldn't make a 'cloak of the berserker' out of a 'badge of the berserker' (since both are neck items, and neither says 'any cloak, or 'any badge', etc). But you can't change a +2 Elven Cloak into some other magic item like a Badge of the Berserker.
Basically, TE exists to allow you to move your favorite enchantment from one weapon to another, or one armor to another, as your character changes/evolves. Maybe you started using Longswords, and later decided scimitars are better for you - move your enchantment from your favorite magic longsword over to a scimitar. Maybe you started wearing chain or scale, and have learned to wear plate instead - move the enchantment from your old suit of scale over to your new suit of plate.
But you can't use TE to completely bypass the bundles in LFR adventures. If you want a Symbol of the Holy Nimbus +1, sell some other magic goodies (at 20%) and buy one - but you can't use TE to turn the Symbol of Life +1 you just found into a different kind of Holy Symbol. You could use TE to upgrade the enchanment from a +1 to a +2 (assuming you are of sufficient level to buy a +2), and only pay the difference in cost between the +1 and the +2...but it wouldn't change from a Symbol of Life into some other kind of Holy Symbol.
Paragons of the Forum: To me, these are people who set the standard for information, insight, and intellect in the 4e forums. Thank you!
GelatinousOctahedron, Litigation, LordDuskBlade, LordOfWeasels
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 10:04AM
#28
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
But nothing prevents this from happening in a home game, correct?
What you are trying to do is not something that the Transfer Enchantment ritual does.
You're arguing that it can do this because they're a line in the CCG which you're interpreting as saying you can use the Transfer Enchantment in such a fashion in the LFR campaign. Quite obviously, that line has absolutely on effect in a home game.
Transfer Enchantment lets you start with a +1 flaming longsword and a normal dagger, and end up with a normal longsword and a +1 flaming dagger. Or, instead, you can start with a +1 flaming longsword and a +1 vicious dagger, and end up with a normal longsword and a +1 flaming dagger, if you would like to waste a magic dagger for absolutely no benefit. It transfers a magical quality from one item to another, wiping out any lower-level magical effect on the receiving item. That is all it does.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 10:45AM
#29
|
Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2007
|
Let me ask this question then:
+3 Sylvan Armor to +3 Displacer Armor, Lvl 14 character, how much will it cost?
TE: +3 Sylvan to +3 Magical (175 Market Cost)
then pay the upgrade Cost from +3 Magical to +3 Displacer? (12000)
for a grand total of 12175? Even though it's one level apart?
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 11:05AM
#30
|
|
|
Let me ask this question then:
+3 Sylvan Armor to +3 Displacer Armor, Lvl 14 character, how much will it cost?
TE: +3 Sylvan to +3 Magical (175 Market Cost)
then pay the upgrade Cost from +3 Magical to +3 Displacer? (12000)
for a grand total of 12175? Even though it's one level apart?
As I understand it, that wouldn't work.
Transfer Enchantment can't be used to create "vanilla" +3 magical armor from a suit of +3 sylvan armor. It can only be used to move the entirety of the "+3 sylvan" enchantment from one suit to another.
So, to go from +3 sylvan to +3 displacer, as I understand it, the only route is:
- Sell the +3 sylvan armor for 3,400 gold
- Buy the +3 displacer armor for 21,000 gold (or, a net of 17,600)
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
|
|
|
