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3 years ago ::
Mar 12, 2010 - 6:52PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2006
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... the simple answer is that the DM is responsible for making sure everyone at the table has fun with the mod.
The complex answer is how does the DM determine that? How much challenge does the DM apply to the mod? Will the DM pull punches? Is the DM entitled to have fun at the table? Does the DM go beyond what the mod has printed for stronger players and parties?
Just curious
Math geek answer:
There is some level of challenge that maximizes fun, based on (A) how difficult the challenge is, and (B) how frequently one totally or partially fails to overcome it.
In other words, if you have 100 wimpy little challenges that are each ε amount of fun, and the party overcomes 100% of them, that's 100*ε total fun. If ε is small that is not really very much cumulative fun.
Instead you might rather have 100 tough challenges that are some larger amount ω of fun to overcome. Since they're tougher, maybe you only overcome 80 of them, partially succeed on 15, and fail on 5. That would be 80*ω + 15*ω/2 + 5*0 = 87.5ω cumulative fun.
As your challenge level ω gets higher, the coefficient in front of it will get lower, since the party fails more often.
There will be some value of ω which maximizes the expected amount of fun.
That's the amount of challenge the DM should be aiming to provide.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 12, 2010 - 7:00PM
#12
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Wouldn't we need to take the derivative of that and determine the marginal funpensity of each hard/easy combat?
Maybe we can name this number funpensity+frupton = frunpensity!
Also on the DME boilerplate-its much harder to adjust difficulty upwards and build something "fair." At least hard mods have been playtested. I think in general if you make mods harder than written, it takes much more effort to give a comparable play experience to a mod as written.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 11:41AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2009
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Two of my personal rules for combat encounters to throw out there:
1) Nobody wants a TPK. I just want to keep the threat of it alive.
2) The best fights are those that end just before they stop being fun.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 9:55AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2005
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I just run the module as written. Not every module is going to suit every taste and be fun for everyone. Since we dont play a tournament style we arent forced to sit with any DM. I DM the way I would like to have the game DMed for me.
This is pretty much how I run them. I look at my job as DM is to adjudicate the rules fairly for all sides. If players make poor tactical choices, it's going to be tougher on them. If the dice fall poorly for the players, it's going to be tougher on them. In the case of tactics, I might offer some clues that trying to do something like fireball a hellhound might not be the best of choices with a successful knowledge check, but I don't tell the players how to play their characters.
In Living Greyhawk days, I was a lot more cautious as a player than I am in Living Forgotten Realms... I find it's really difficult to die... and even if you do, there isn't much of a loss. I find this bit of recklessness to be more fun.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 21, 2010 - 7:20PM
#15
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The job is to tell a shared story, having each player add their own mark. You make it fun and keep it moving.
The next thing is herding cats.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 23, 2010 - 12:07AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2005
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As a DM myself when I run mods. I usually look at where they are starting and like any normal game ask what they are doing. I input the adventure hooks and see if they bite. If not, I make sure that the only thing they are hearing about is this hook.
Example is one of the Waterdeep ones. I took the full four hours to run it, it could be done in about 3 hours. Why it took so long, about a half hour of Welcome to the City, what are you doing and my religious players went and prayed at their church, the ones not so religious went to the inn, and teh rest joined up. Then party came together due to a job. Afterwards the group told me that it was the most memorable game for low characters because they weren't shoved into the adventure and were able to actually do some of their own exploring.
So, the role of the DM: Make it beliveable and fun.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 24, 2010 - 2:02PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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As your challenge level ω gets higher, the coefficient in front of it will get lower, since the party fails more often.
There will be some value of ω which maximizes the expected amount of fun.
I kinda like that answer... but I have to wonder if occasional failures increase the fun of future adventures (both for those players and others that weren't even playing).
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3 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2010 - 8:35AM
#18
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2009
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The challenge to the DM is to enhance the fun of the players.
Dm's need to be like the reed, to bend to their players concept of fun. I may not always succeed, but I always try.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2010 - 2:15PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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I do it find it interesting in all of the replies that no one mentions that the DM should have fun while DMing.
In most of the responses, the DM is responsible for facilitating the players having fun although nothing is said about the DM enjoying himself or herself as well.
So to all that replied, do you all view DMing as a chore, that is a necessary evil for the LFR community to stay alive?
Also what is your views on players that never DM, even though some of those players are hugely experienced and well versed with the rules of the game?
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3 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2010 - 2:47PM
#20
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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The decision a DM makes to focus on what the players want should not in any way decrease the DM's fun. Is it more fun to TPK? Is it more fun to see them use a certain power combo and have us explain that it doesn't work at our table?
When I first started DMing, doing things like adapting a published module ("improving it", I called it), I was deriving great pleasure from seeing my creativity turned real and by providing a good (sometimes) experience to others, but also from a misunderstood concept of what others would like. It was a very outward sense of fun. I didn't mean it to be selfish, but it was coming from my perspective, which lacked experience. Over time, the successes and failures shaped what I would provide (maybe one of each color dragon all flying overhead but giving them a 'kill a dragon with one blow sword' wasn't so great... maybe making them all half-dragons afterward wasn't so great either...). Over time I came to adjust my sense of what worked based both on what I liked and what players wanted. This was in home campaigns. In RPGA, the game is written for you, the story set, and you run it. You are a judge, not a creator. There, you try to breathe life into something and provide a good run.
In LG, my perspective was one of being an impartial adjudicator. I think many of us take on that roll for most or part of our DMing lifetime. The dice fall, they crit you three times, you die, so be it. Or, we take on more of a storyteller role and we roll behind a screen and try to give PCs what they want. The encounter should play like this, I'll make that happen.
Nothing is perfect and nothing is for everyone, but as we try things out I think we find the right balance and we take steps to make that work. If you always roll in the open, you might make different changes to provide an out, such as having a foe use bad tactics. If you roll behind a screen, you might compensate by using tougher tactics.
In balancing adjudicator and storyteller, you hopefully find a happy place where, when you finish, the players at the table look pleased. I take pleasure when I have most of the table bloody and hurting and they say "wow, you are the nicest DM ever" because I let them retcon something. When they request that I DM them later, that gives me great pleasure.
Sometimes, my pleasure does take a hit. I write an encounter expecting a thrilling end to the adventure, but the wizard has the perfect power and the encounter is a piece of cake. I'm sad. Then again, I know that if I took steps to adjust it and artificially make it hard, it might take away from the players' success. So, I celebrate their brilliant choice in powers, focus on the RP of it and talking about how they blast away their foes. And, at the end of it, I get really happy when their expressions tell me they had a great time. I would prefer it had been a challenge, but I still get satisfaction from their reactions.
Even in a home campaign, I find that the encounters where the PCs feel challenged but thwarted end quietly and ok. The encounters that are fun, regardless of difficulty, end with high fives, with players being happy. And that's where my fun is these days. Making the table "their" table is actually the most fun I've ever had.
When it comes to players never DMing, I have no problem at all with it. No one should DM because they have to. They should want to do it and enjoy it. Now, players that do enjoy DMing but prefer to play are the norm - those are the ones I try to pressure a bit to see them keep the community alive. And I like to see players try their hand at DMing, because it is a good experience and they might like it.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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