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3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 3:44PM
#21
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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We are deep into custom DM rules and judgement calls, which is not the point of the RPGA and certainly not a list of suggestions for new DMs. I suspect you will end up forcing very artificial behavior. I prefer other means for enticing players to participate than an XP threat (which may be a reward). It could be especially troubling if you drop it without warning at the end. "Ok, the royal court grants permission. You two gain experience, but not the rest of you..."
Without official policy, the DM is left with the DMG for rules. If there IS RPGA policy on this, I'll accept it. Otherwise, the DMG specifically outlines this as an option. DMG120 might make this a bit more clear:
Earning XP
Characters earn XP for every encounter they overcome. The XP reward for completing an encounter is the sum of the XP values for each monster, NPC, trap, or hazard that makes up the encounter. You noted or assigned this number when you built the encounter, to judge its difficulty against your players. (Published adventures note the XP value of each encounter they contain.) Divide the XP total for the encounter by the number of players present to help overcome it, and that’s how many XP each character gets.
XP threat? It's a matter of XP earned or not. The characters that actively help the group push forward earn experience points for success (or failure, if they can't pull it off). The characters that decide NOT to help... don't.
I didn't consider that missing out on XP would be considered a reward by some. That's intuitively... weird, but I can see where folks could turn that in to a positive. Higher GP/XP ratio. I'd think this would fall in to disciplinary action territory -- the players of these characters are intentionally hindering the party's progress.
We do have rules for the campaign that apply here. We use core rules, not house rules. The whole section you are talking about holds suggested house rules. Specifically, they are rules for what to do in an ongoing home campaign when players miss sessions, are late, etc. This just doesn't apply to RPGA in any way, shape, or form. Beyond that, it certainly doesn't belong in any "Good Practices Quick-Reference Sheet".
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 4:02PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2008
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If I'm off-base, fine. What IS the official rule? I've looked in the DMG, the character creation guide, and the RPGA general rules. I've seen (and cited) instances where characters are rewarded with XP for encounters they helped to beat. I haven't seen - or have apparently overlooked - anything contrary.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 4:12PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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If I'm off-base, fine. What IS the official rule? I've looked in the DMG, the character creation guide, and the RPGA general rules. I've seen (and cited) instances where characters are rewarded with XP for encounters they helped to beat. I haven't seen - or have apparently overlooked - anything contrary.
"Give PCs a full award for each encounter they successfully completed, and a half award if they were unsuccessful. Give no award if the characters did not play the encounter at all."
You can find that it every single module, in the Experience Points section under Rewards. These rewards are for the entire group--the PCs successfully completed an encounter or they did not; the characters played the encounter or they did not play it at all.
As long as the characters were present for the encounter, they earn a share of the experience. Indeed, that's what the very rule you quoted from the DMG states: "Divide the XP total for the encounter by the number of players present to help overcome it, and that’s how many XP each character gets."
All that matters is that the player was present to help overcome it; whether he actually did help overcome it is a separate matter and irrelevant to the question of whether he was present.
Aside from bonuses from completing a major quest or a player leaving halfway through the adventure, all PCs receive the exact same experience award.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 4:47PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2001
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I don't alter the XP per character on GM-discretionary stuff when DMing RPGA events for one main reason.
And my reason has little to do with the game itself.
I don't do it because it often creates an argumentative scenario, ill feelings, and generally puts a negative damper on the whole situation, all for what really amounts to little gain of any meaningful sort.
Seriously. What does withholding XP gain? Especially in a living campaign where you might never see this player again?
I am not just an DM. I am an RPGA DM. I represent the RPGA. I also represent the convention I am judging at. My responsibility is to more than just my personal petty likes or dislikes.
RPGA players and DMs come in all personalities and play styles. Some are more active. Some are less. Different people play for different reasons.
If I'm DMing a table, it's often at a convention where I may never have met these players prior to sitting down at the table. I'm not going to smack them in the face for having a different play style or expecting different things than what I am used to. Especially since they've often taken time off from work, possibly having to use vacation days or lose hourly wages to do so, and potentially spent hundreds of dollars in travel and hotel expenses, not to mention convention fees.
So I tend to be more flexible and lenient in the RPGA than I might in a home game.
My job is NOT to merely be the "law". I'm not a cop. I'm a DM. There is a difference. My job is to ensure the players have an enjoyable time. This is not to say I don't enforce the rules of the game. But the scenario in question is a gray area that potentially can create bad feelings. Since I have discretion in this kinda of case, I prefer a carrot over a stick.
If I want to encourage a player to participate more? I try talking to the guy. You'd be surprised how well that works. But if they're shy, or otherwise not buying into it, I'm not going to penalize them just because they play different. If a player walks away from the table in a bad mood, it’s a bad reflection on not just me, but the convention, and the RPGA. Being overly strict and punitive over minor stupid issues can have that result. -karma
LFR Characters:
Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard
Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard
Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
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3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 5:16PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2008
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We have a very different interpretation of that line in the DMG. A character may be present without being present to help - that's why I quoted that line. Likewise the line describing rewards in the encounter - "give no reward if the characters did not play the encounter at all." Characters that opt out didn't play the encounter at all. No stake, no risk, no reward (see overcoming obstacles on DMG120).
I know 4E has a very group-centric philosophy - I don't even bother with XP in my home games - which makes the individual XP tracking in LFR feel very alien. I'm not trying to be obtuse- it appears that what you're saying is the commonly accepted practice of granting XP. I just don't see the verbiage that indicates that ALL characters earn the rewards regardless of their participation.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2010 - 11:10PM
#26
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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This isn't an argument I care to spend more time discussing. That's why I've tried to say that if the word "interpretation" is coming up, or even any lengthy discussion, then it doesn't belong in a quick guide.
Over and out.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 4:59AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2007
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I don't alter the XP per character on GM-discretionary stuff when DMing RPGA events for one main reason.
And my reason has little to do with the game itself.
I don't do it because it often creates an argumentative scenario, ill feelings, and generally puts a negative damper on the whole situation, all for what really amounts to little gain of any meaningful sort.
Oh absolutely.
We have an (admittedly rather immature) player here who gets really upset if, in his view, other people caused the party to fail an encounter, because it means less XP for him. Of course, he's silent when other people caused the party to pass an encounter with no successful help from his part. Giving different players different amounts of XP would only encourage such argumentative players. The only exception I've seen is that if for whatever reason a player is not present for the full adventure, he gets less XP for the part where he wasn't there. That sounds reasonable. If I am aware that the group could automatically succeed in a skill challenge by playing in the most uninteresting fashion possible (pick the guy with the highest bonus to a usable skill, everyone else assists; ride that to victory), I will simply consider the group to have succeeded and then endeavor to get everyone to participate, with the skills and results merely determining the path they take. I don't quite get the idea of saying, "Yeah, I know you could beat this easily, but I'd rather you played this encounter in a way that would be more fun, but if you choose to do that, I might punish you." If you're at the point of forcing players to choose between having fun and doing well, that should tell you that there's something wrong with the choice you're giving them.
Well said.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 5:51AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2009
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Preparing the maps ahead of time is a good practice. It allows more time for adventure and it helps maintain tension and involvement because there is no lengthy break to draw the maps.
You can use multiple battlemats, dungeon tiles fixed to posterboard with adhesive poster tabs (make sure to get the non-permanent ones), Gaming Paper, or 1" graph paper tablets. However it is done, prepping the maps before the adventure is a time saver.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 5:54AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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- For the love of Bob, SHOWER EVERY DAY.
More often if necessary. Gamer funk is not cool. Seriously. Soap won't kill you.
Hissssssssssssssssssssss... it burns! It's killings us!
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 6:51AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2008
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This isn't an argument I care to spend more time discussing. That's why I've tried to say that if the word "interpretation" is coming up, or even any lengthy discussion, then it doesn't belong in a quick guide.
This is quite different than your previous comment, and a point I'll quite cheerfully grant you. The XP reference is out.
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