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Mar 5, 2010 -- 3:39PM, Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:

And I complained about the Flute. One of those items that are super-cheap in Paragon and when it was an encounter, you could easily activate one per round with a Wizard or anyone else who can replace what's in their hand with a minor.

We really need a new category, perhaps "daily, but not costing a daily magic item power use".  As a daily magic item power, the flute is almost completely worthless.

I think if every problem causing by allowing epic characters to have an infinite number of heroic magic items is solved by nerfing the heroic level magic items, we're going to end up with a very limited list of heroic level magic items worth taking.

Mar 5, 2010 -- 5:44PM, Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:

Mar 5, 2010 -- 4:25PM, bgibbons wrote:

We really need a new category, perhaps "daily, but not costing a daily magic item power use".  As a daily magic item power, the flute is almost completely worthless.

I think if every problem causing by allowing epic characters to have an infinite number of heroic magic items is solved by nerfing the heroic level magic items, we're going to end up with a very limited list of heroic level magic items worth taking.

This wasn't a epic level issue. This was a low to mid-paragon issue. Buy 5 of them when you sell a level 16 item.

It now isn't a bad 6th level item. It isn't a great 6th level item, but I'd happily carry one around for quite some time if I found it in a home game. There are times when you need the entire party to shift 1 square while using a free action. That lets you do it. Not every item in D&D needs to be worth a found item slot in LFR...

Really? I would argue that, if it's not worth a found item slot in LFR, it's probably a weaksauce item. Think about it. In LFR, an item is worth a found item slot if it is worth passing up the opportunity to get another found item to obtain. Since your choice of found items is fairly limited, that is by no means equal to being a great item of its level. For example, one of my warlords who had lived for several levels on the +1 magic weapon he bought after his second adventure took a +2 strongheart weapon as a found item. Is strongheart a good item? Certainly not. But it's +2 and at this point (or earlier) in the character's career (level 5-6) any +2 weapon is worth a found item slot (since he doesn't have one already). Strongheart didn't have to be a good choice to merit that found item slot.

But now, we're considering an item that will never be worth a found item slot. In fact, it will never be worth owning. Not only is it worse than most of its competition similarly leveled competition (iron armbands of power or flute? Tough choice--not; boots of the fencing master or the flute? not a tough choice either; if it's worth having, it's better than the new flute), it eats up a magic item daily power--and that opportunity cost prevents it from being worthwhile at high levels when it would be affordable.

The bottom line is that this errata demonstrates the fundamental flaw in the economics of 4e: they make it difficult to have useful magic item powers except at epic levels. Even the most mundane level 15 item can become five level 5 items and the opportunity cost of making or buying one is 25 level 5 items. Thus if you make power-based level 5 items that are any good, the level 25 ones have to be REALLY  good before people think about them.