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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 11:54AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2005
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In LG, it felt like the majority of play was in a region. Later, it also included a meta-region, which worked well since LG had grown to have solid reasons for caring about one's neighbors.
And yet, the majority of play wasn't in region - 8 regionals, (later) 8 meta-regionals, 20 cores per year. This suggests that just a small structural change in structure could change people's impressions of LFR substantially.
Drezden, among others, suggests we reward PCs for playing in-region. If we can do that, then all other modules for that PC are effectively "core", and we have something reminiscent of LG. I don't think this is actually workable at the moment, given how few modules each region produces per year (now spread over 5 level bands), but I think it's the right direction for our thinking.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 12:26PM
#22
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2005
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Which is probably why LFR player & play numbers are much higher than LG.
Keith
The LG data for play would be an incomplete data set compared to the LFR data set since LG was not tracked as well as LFR is.
I just know that LFR is all but dead locally and the areas that I traveled to to play before dont offer the conventions they used to and the couple that do exist dont draw the numbers they did previously.
David
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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 12:41PM
#23
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The LG data for play would be an incomplete data set compared to the LFR data set since LG was not tracked as well as LFR is.
I'm not at all sure that I agree with that statement.
For most of the run of LG, you had Player Rewards, which meant that most players had a vested interest in getting the table reported (so they could accumulate points).
In LFR, particularly now that we (a) only have GM Rewards, and (b) no longer have the online character tracker, there's even less incentive to report tables than LG had.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 12:54PM
#24
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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That means more of an approach like Elturgard (or ether threat, or Rary, or Sheldomar common foe, or ... insert more LG parallels)
I think people forget that quite a few LG story arcs took several years to finish. LONGER than LFR story arcs. I'm just saying.
Regions seem to be, first and foremost, about an organizational scheme for the three admins.
True. Regions are there to facilitate the administration. It is easier to admin a region. The problem is that with 4 or 5 adventures a year, a regional arc takes time to build. Cross regional works better but is not always an option. A possibility is to make story arcs in one region in ione quarter (with one WD in charge),a nd another regoon the next quarter (with another WD in charge). That does need some coordinating though, and I don't know if it would be too taxing for the main WD. Realizing (say) 3 adventurs in one quarter is a LOT of work.
In any case, I think for story consistency we need to cooperate. I feel it is evry hard to set up a continuing story on your own.
Gomez
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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 12:58PM
#25
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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With the tight level bands and the way releases bounce around these bands, I will be curious to see how LFR handles continuity between modules released later which will necessarily be played before modules released earlier.
I try to keep that in mind, i.e. by refering NPCs in a neutral way or by using follow-up events only in hiher tiers, but does not always work. I.e. playing DALE1-4 after DALE2-1 is going to be really awkward.
Gomez
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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 5:45PM
#26
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2005
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That means more of an approach like Elturgard (or ether threat, or Rary, or Sheldomar common foe, or ... insert more LG parallels)
I think people forget that quite a few LG story arcs took several years to finish. LONGER than LFR story arcs. I'm just saying.
Regions seem to be, first and foremost, about an organizational scheme for the three admins.
True. Regions are there to facilitate the administration. It is easier to admin a region. The problem is that with 4 or 5 adventures a year, a regional arc takes time to build. Cross regional works better but is not always an option. A possibility is to make story arcs in one region in ione quarter (with one WD in charge),a nd another regoon the next quarter (with another WD in charge). That does need some coordinating though, and I don't know if it would be too taxing for the main WD. Realizing (say) 3 adventurs in one quarter is a LOT of work.
In any case, I think for story consistency we need to cooperate. I feel it is evry hard to set up a continuing story on your own.
Gomez
I have tables from Gencon and DDXP that were never reported. So I do agree with that statement.
Plus we dont know what they are counting as higher interest etc. Is it tables reported or modules ordered. There will be a HUGE difference in those numbers.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 7:10PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2004
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Drezden, among others, suggests we reward PCs for playing in-region. If we can do that, then all other modules for that PC are effectively "core", and we have something reminiscent of LG. I don't think this is actually workable at the moment, given how few modules each region produces per year (now spread over 5 level bands), but I think it's the right direction for our thinking.
I thought there was supposed to be more done with "Regional PCs" than what has been done so far. Seriously, I've run maybe 8-9 mods, and maybe ONE of them(I have seen, anyway) have written *anything* about regional PCs in the party. 
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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 7:52PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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What if one of the regional benefits was being friends with/knowing of a smattering of prominent NPCs from the region? Perhaps even getting to pick one as your general sponsor/best friend/etc...
Just use the major repeating NPCs already in mods from the region, include them in future mods, etc...
This does a few things: Gives a minor mechanical benefit, but nothing that will really change anything. Encourage players to research their region to figure out which NPC really fits their background. Gives a fast hook to PCs from the region to get into almost any mod. Why are you visiting Dragoncoast? Because PC X wanted to visit his best friend and it was on the way from wherever you were. And hey, he needs you to solve a problem that came up.
Another option might be to include an extra story award option that overrides one of the possible options available to other PCs. So while a quest might involve working for the Flaming Fist for anyone from outside of Baldur's Gate, for people from Baldur's Gate, they might get the identical award, except that they're assigned to work for a particular captain on a 'special assignment'(and the DM tells them to write it onto the printout, so no need for printing out lots of extra, perhaps unused pages)
If that captain then comes up in another mod...
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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 10:01PM
#29
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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For me, LG wasn't about PC benefits. The appeal was story, a sense of belonging, a sense of contributing, and a sense of things happening of which you wanted to be a part. I don't want more power for my PC. I do want some connection to regions. Some of it is there. Waterdeep has painted a good picture of the city, but I don't have a wattering whole or too many strong NPC contacts that I feel attached to (the guilds are employers, but I'm not close to them). Tymanther has perhaps the best, with a smallish town I can grasp, some NPCs I recall, and consistent setting. Ideally, adventures would make me care about the region. DALE1-6 and CORM1-6 are examples, with both getting my PC involved in the region and caring about it. I only wish that had happened earlier. I think it works like this:
- You need something like a home base or port of call, with an organization you care about.
- You want NPCs that are interesting, powerful, and appealing. You look up to the king or queen. You envy the grand wizard. You are curious about the leaders of the knights. You recognize the power of the large church. You want to work your way up, gaining prestige, acceptance, notoriety, and true tradable influence.
- You want the adventures to place some responsibiity in your hands for how those organizations fare. Ideally, you are responsible for NPCs that you can become attached to as their fate is determined.
- You want, over time, to learn more about the place. Secrets appear, are uncovered, yielding more secrets.
Now, that needs to be balanced with the goal of LFR.
- The extent to which NPCs and story matter should be mitigated, so you don't create the old boy's club. The biggest thing is to not assume that players know what has come before. The easiest way is to remove any assumption regarding retired adventures.
- In addition, keep the story focused on the now, vs. the past. Feed off of the past, but keep on the present. The king remaried. Rather than rehash that, just make mention of it, and focus on the next thing that happens with the new queen. Keep the setting rich but the action on the current story arc.
- Make prior involvment matter from a story perspective, not a mechanical or adventure success one. Because you know the NPC, you have more fun and depth out of the play experience, but you don't auto-succeed (nor auto-fail for not knowing the NPC).
- Bring new parts of the story at low levels, rather than the traditional method of adding more to high levels. Low level play should be interesting. The recent SPEC2-1 H1 having one of the coolest story aspects is an example of what I am talking about.
Ok, must stop. Just throwing some ideas out there.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2010 - 12:30AM
#30
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
- Dragon Slayer
- D&DI News Guide
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2005
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Plus we dont know what they are counting as higher interest etc. Is it tables reported or modules ordered. There will be a HUGE difference in those numbers.
It's hearsay, but from the quotes I've overheard, I'd expect that it's reported play.
And considering that (as others have pointed out, above) GenCon08 and DDXP09 never made it into the system (though I'm sure Dave presented play numbers, so they're not *total* voids) the increases that WotC is so happy about must be standing out quite well.
Wolf Star76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide  Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter
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