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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 2:43AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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As for Imaginaryfriend's remark about instead of having a regional administration, making it a story one, there is one downside to that. Now we have much less chance of contradicting one another in different stories since the same people are involved with the same adventures. The workload for globals and administrators becomes higher because now we have to review all adventures instead of focussing on a select number and even then our memory is limited and the chance for errors is bigger. Not sure it is an unsurmountable problem, but it is something to keep in mind.
As stated it is a non consolidated set of thoughts, not a guideline 
Contradiction like you refer to is a problem, but as I said, it is not about global scope in all the stories. As long as you do not cross scope boundaries too often between admins it should be manageable. (And I apologize. I just read that back and that last line could have gone right into a management briefing. Urghs, again sorry )
I don't quite see why you would not need to review all adventures.
Yes, you would need to keep track of what happens at least at the non totally regional level. I don't know, maybe build like a an ongoing ehm, Grand History of the Realms?
Seriously, I do understand there would need to be tracking and checking and keeping things updated, but then that is something I think people could and would gladly help with.
To DME, or not to DME: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous powergaming, Or to take arms against a sea of Munchkins, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;No more;
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 4:57AM
#42
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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The questions is: wiill this solve the problem?
An example.
Currently, I am the Dalelands WD.
I like to belive the adventures we bring out are all one great story arc. I realize not everyone will instantly realize this.
But if you play the cirrent adventres as follows:
DALE1-1 - (DRAG1-1) - (DRAG1-7) - DALE1-7 - DALE1-2 - DALE1-4 - DALE2-1 - DALE1-5 - DALE1-3 - DALE1-6 - (DRAG2-1) - (CORE2-2) - (CORM-2-2) - DALE-2-2
you'll have a pretty coherent story (though it'll take till DALE2-2 to see what DALE1-4 and DALE1-1 have to do with each other).
These liens can eb played right now. The main problem of this approach is that these adventures came outevery 3-months, and those connected in one arc are not necessarily within the same level band.
Now, suppose I am the WD of a story arc. I release:
STOR1-1 , STOR1-2, STOR-13.
Each with 3 month pauzes between them.
Now, if these are in the same level band, you can't play your PC for 3 months (like the MINI series).
If you can play them in succeeding level abnds, you play other arcs in between.
In the latter case, the feeling for story is as much as that in the regional adventure arcs above.
The end result is that you did not solve the problem.
To solve the problem, you would have to release several adventures forming a story arc quick after another (ideally in the same quarter). That, however, poses a lot of stress, far more work than a normal arc where you deal with one adventure every 3 months.
Gomez
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 5:31AM
#43
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Personally I feel that if you need 15 (or more) adventures to get the full arc idea, it is way too much. Sure, I can see where you would need 15 adventures simply because the adventures still need to make sense on their own as well. Still you might want to consider smaller stories? As I stated, stories would need to be pre-planned for level band and cohesive release. I figure releasing a story for each level band, where normally there would be a burst of disjointed adventures should be doable while staying within the current number of adventures (or even a lot less). It is not an idea that projects easily on the current situation. You would have to let go of the way things are handled now, the release planning, etc. Not a small step. It is a thought amongst many and most likely not something that would work on its own. We would still need one-off adventures like we have now to fill tier transitions or downtime
To DME, or not to DME: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous powergaming, Or to take arms against a sea of Munchkins, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;No more;
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 7:37AM
#44
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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There are inidvidual arcs as well:
DALE1-1 - DALE1-3 - DALE1-6
DALE1-7 - DRAG1-7
DALE1-2 - DALE1-4 - DALE1-5
DALE1-4 - DALE2-1
DRAG2-1 - CORM-2-2 - DALE-2-2
But apparently the complaint is that that is not enough.
I am merely showing that all those individual arcs are also connected, so if players look for a greater story arc, that can be found.
Personally, I don't think you get cohesiveness with having lots of stories that, in the end, don't connect.
Sure you can release 3 adventures now in the level 1-4 range. And next quarter you can play 3 adventures for levels 4-7. But if those do not relate to each other, you still won't have much of a cohesiveness to the campaign. Just (effectively) longer adventures.
And as I noted, it takes a lot more work, coordination, and accompanying stress in getting things to finish in time.
That's not based on mere deduction, either, as I am working on it right now (and that's merely an arc spread over 2 quarters).
If people expect me to do that regularly, I am going to need to get paid for this.
Gomez
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 8:15AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Dec 23, 2009
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I am merely showing that all those individual arcs are also connected, so if players look for a greater story arc, that can be found.
Ok. I can find the individual arcs on community.wizards.com/lfr/wiki/Adventure... (for those of you who have been there before and not noticed it, scroll all the way to the bottom, past the adventures no one in your group has characters high enough to play).
I completely missed the great story arc, and since it contains elements outside the regular arc, I don't think I would have ever chosen that collection in that order without you pointing it out. (Heck, I wouldn't have found the stuff at the end of the Wiki without the above post. I simply had never scrolled all the way down.)
Given the new information, I may start planning to run a regular time and group to run through those modules in the great arc order. I'll sit down and see how the XP comes out and see where I'll have to insert other modules to fill level/equipment gaps.
Thank you.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 8:48AM
#46
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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For what it's worth, CORE1-1, CORE1-2, and DRAG1-6 are also peripherally connected (some minor NPCs may occur there first). DALE1-6 also has a connection to MOON 1-5.
Gomez
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 9:16AM
#47
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DRAG1-1, 1-2 & 1-3: Light, Gray and Dark
DRAG1-4, 1-5, & 1-6: White Petal
DRAG1-7/DALE1-7: Arts & Crafts
DRAG2-1/CORM2-2/DALE2-2: Pain & Suffering
DRAG2-2, 2-3 & 2-4: Treacherous Waters
LFR may not yet match the regional flavour of LG but that will come as the campaign matures. People seem to forget that was a criticism of the first two years of LG as well. Also, many naysayers weren't around for those times and thus compare LFR with a campaign that had 6,7 or 8 years to grow into itself. That just isn't realistic or fair, ymmv.
Joe Fitzgerald
Event Manager
Dragon Coast
You cannot really make an argument with adventures that are not out yet. Of the two, Crafts is the red-headed step-child of the series and a prime example of a WTF mod. You can play either one first, but it makes more sense playing DALE 1-7 first before DRAG 1-7 as you have a reason to be in Westgate when you play Crafts. You're sitting at the bar drinking while a chick is getting molested by a drunk... that's your adventure hook if you play Crafts first.
Like I said, White Lotus is excellent. I like it.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 11:33AM
#48
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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To solve the problem, you would have to release several adventures forming a story arc quick after another (ideally in the same quarter). That, however, poses a lot of stress, far more work than a normal arc where you deal with one adventure every 3 months.
Gomez
I think you are right. With so many adventures released and with the information on how they connect being so inaccessible, it is really hard for a player to ensure they will play a story arc. It is far more likely that the player will play the story arc over time with different PCs. This makes an OOC experience with regards to the linked story.
For example, I have enjoyed the common setting in TYMA adventures as a player. But, I can only vaguely say that I think my rogue played two adventures and my warlord two, unless I really sit and think on it carefully.
Just today I received an e-mail from one of my groups asking what 7-10 we should play. Most of the players will have no opinion. Probably one will mention a region they favor. Only I am obsessive enough to look up the available adventures and comment based on arc.
The Gamer's Club House at least now lets you sort and search better, but for most of LFR's brief history it has been really hard to find which modules were available. Even the wiki linked above is not ideal - you can't easily sort or filter and it is largely user-maintained (I just made several edits). Something else is needed if the current system of story arcs and regions continues, and it needs to be right on the main LFR page off of the basic D&D website.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 11:46AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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You cannot really make an argument with adventures that are not out yet. Of the two, Crafts is the red-headed step-child of the series and a prime example of a WTF mod. You can play either one first, but it makes more sense playing DALE 1-7 first before DRAG 1-7 as you have a reason to be in Westgate when you play Crafts. You're sitting at the bar drinking while a chick is getting molested by a drunk... that's your adventure hook if you play Crafts first.
Like I said, White Lotus is excellent. I like it.
Actually, I thought the fact that every single Dragon Coast adventure ever released was part of a story arc had made the argument. The rest showed I'm serious about Dragon Coast adventures always being part of an arc.
I also think Crafts makes perfect sense if played first, it's just that DALE1-7 was released first, which is why most people experienced them in that order. It's the only DRAG adventure that begins in a tavern too, so it's hardly flogging a dead horse! In any case, both are excellent, if slightly flawed adventures. 
Joe Fitzgerald | joerpga[at]yahoo[dot]com[dot]au
LFR Global Administrator
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 12:03PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2005
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DRAG1-1, 1-2 & 1-3: Light, Gray and Dark
DRAG1-4, 1-5, & 1-6: White Petal
DRAG1-7/DALE1-7: Arts & Crafts
DRAG2-1/CORM2-2/DALE2-2: Pain & Suffering
DRAG2-2, 2-3 & 2-4: Treacherous Waters
LFR may not yet match the regional flavour of LG but that will come as the campaign matures. People seem to forget that was a criticism of the first two years of LG as well. Also, many naysayers weren't around for those times and thus compare LFR with a campaign that had 6,7 or 8 years to grow into itself. That just isn't realistic or fair, ymmv.
Joe Fitzgerald
Event Manager
Dragon Coast
You cannot really make an argument with adventures that are not out yet. Of the two, Crafts is the red-headed step-child of the series and a prime example of a WTF mod. You can play either one first, but it makes more sense playing DALE 1-7 first before DRAG 1-7 as you have a reason to be in Westgate when you play Crafts. You're sitting at the bar drinking while a chick is getting molested by a drunk... that's your adventure hook if you play Crafts first.
Like I said, White Lotus is excellent. I like it.
As far as Dragon Coast goes, I think they are one of the better regions as far as developing plots. However, to put Drag 1-1 in a series with Drag 1-2 and Drag 1-3 is a pretty big stretch. Yes, there is a story award connection from Drag 1-1 to the other two, but the plot connection is so well hidden and tenuous that the bit of paper you get at the end will often be the first players hear of it.
The White petal arc is a also a bit bizarre from a regional flavor perspective. Now maybe 4e canon officially moved a Shou city into the dragon coast (I don't know for certain, there isn't a lot of 4e canon FR information on the web). And the region is "Dragon Coast," not "Westgate" which means that adventures should take place outside of Westgate in the wider region. But if you compare the various Westgate adventures to the White Petal adventures, they really have very little in common (yes, the primary NPC contact for Drag 1-4 may (or may not, depending on the players' actions and skills) be introduced in Drag 1-2)--I think there was more crossover between Nyrond and Theocracy of the Pale adventures in the early days of Living Greyhawk than there is between the two series. It feels rather like playing in two different regions rather than playing two stories in the same region.
In the end, I think the Dragon Coast team has done a good job of conveying a stereotypical Hong Kong action movie feel for the area detailed in the white lotus adventures. (Some day, someone will put subtitles on their DM screen). And, with the exception of Drag 1-1, they have pretty consistently portrayed Westgate as a cross between Moss Eisley spaceport and the San Francisco of the Dirty Harry movies. (I do wonder what happened to the Night Masks though--did they get killed off in the spellplague?) But while we have a strong flavor for both areas that Westgate adventures have explored, I do not have any idea about anything above that micro level. Are there any regional (rather than local) conflicts? I've no idea. In short, I have an idea what two parts of the region are like, but no real idea what is going on within the region as a whole.
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