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Feb 8, 2010 -- 3:26PM, SYB wrote:

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Honestly, you aren't really helping the conversation and to be brutally honest, you seem to be a perfect example of the kind of player that spurred this thread.  Please stop throwing gas on the fire.

The social contract exists for a reason.  If you refuse to accept it, then don't be surprised if you are eventually penalized for that.  Based on what I have seen of your comments here and on other threads, I would never willingly DM for you in a private game and in a public game, I would push you to the end of the queue, assuming it was in my power.  Only at a convention could I ever imagine DMing for you and if your power gaming approach seemed to be making the game less enjoyable for other players, I wouldn't think twice about invoking the "don't be a jerk" clause of the CCG.

-SYB

Dude, chill out. Don't take most of my post seriously. I know some of the posters IRL and I'm just having fun antagonizing them.


On topic:

If this happened in game, then I would agree that his ruling on the subject is fine.

This actually occured outside of a game where both parties, after seeking confirmation on their points in the matter, could be correct or incorrect in their interpretation of the item in question. In the case of the player and his item being incorrectly interpreted, the player has to suck it up and find better cheese (lol). If the DM was incorrect in the matter, then suck it up.

In the case of Ferol_Debtor's point, the player was wrong and his ruling was correct.


Referring to his lack of enjoyment when DMing with munchkins, that's what you get when you're playing with munchkins. If ALL of your players are munchkins, you have a problem and a big decision you have to make if you still wish to participate with them. If it's only 1 or 2 players, then the problem is still not easily solved. You can ask them not to play, but then you also subject another DM to the same problem when both of you are players.

In my local circle of players, almost all but a select few are power games. One could be considered a munchkin but that's really pushing it. Everyone has their cheese. Most of us usually see someone else play a character or use an item and think, "Hey, that's a pretty cool item. I want it!" We all police each other and if something sounds fishy, we get some words in, get a DM ruling and be on our merry way with bashing monsters. We all respect each other as players and DMs in our community.

What I think Ferol_Debtor's group of players lack is that same sense of community and respect toward each other as players/DMs. That is the basis for D&D in essence. To remedy this, maybe one day he should sit down with his regular gamers and have a pow-wow about the subject. He could just say, "Look, you can bring your gouda, but don't be a munchkin." or something along those lines. Or he could get a ruling from a group of DMs, even better if his circle of players are also DMs, to get their opinions and get a better ruling on something. That way everyone has a say and not be it a conversation between one player and a DM in a car heading home.

Feb 8, 2010 -- 3:56PM, bgibbons wrote:

Feb 8, 2010 -- 3:32PM, SYB wrote:

And, whether public or private, I have strict table policies prohibiting electronic devices at my tables.  Also, I require full documentation for any rule being used (exceptions for PHB and PHB II rules) and will not accept illegal PDFs as documentation.

Considering that the Character Builder and Compendium are legal rules sources in LFR, on par with the books, it's fairly trivial to provide proper documentation.

While you can simply arbitrarily deny their use or refuse to accept the validity of CB printouts, at that point you might as well just come right out and declare what rules options you will and won't allow at your table, rather than keeping up a farce that you're playing by the rules.

I didn't say I won't accept those sources.  I said, from my experience, more often than not, power gamers "forget" to print out legitimate documentation.  Or, in some cases, I have seen a CB printout that lists a power name without a description of the power.  No description and I certainly do not have to accept the claimed use rules for the power.

I also said I won't accept illegal PDFs.  If you want to use a rule from Primal Power, bring Primal Power, not a printed page from a PDF you found on the web.  Since I know there is no legal PDF, I have no way to confirm whether it is a forgery or not.

Simple rule: Require legitimate documentation.

It goes a long way to preventing both cheese and arguments.

-SYB