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Feb 7, 2010 -- 9:16AM, Drezden wrote:

As a LFR DM its not your role -- nor do you have the power -- to nerf powerful items because you don't like them.  The 4.0 rules developers have that job.  So, Bloodclaw pre-errata -- you might have thought it was broken (it was), but you couldn't make it an encounter power or lowered the damage it did.  Thankfully, the 4.0 developers took care of it.  Same thing with the Dice of Auspicious Fortune.  You might not like them, but you can't tell a LFR player he can't use them.

Actually, that's not always true. There are often multiple interpretations of the rules and while the player may have picked the most favorable ruling, that doesn't mean the DM has to pick the same one or not enforce limits.

As an example, Bloodclaw might have been broken, but it required a free action to use. A DM would be well within their limits to say, "You can't use more than one free action per power." or "You can't do a particular free action more than once a round." You might hear screams from the pre-errata Bloodclaw users if you did that, but that was perfectly RAW for a DM to do.

With Dice of Auspicious Fortune, there is a RAW case to be made that you can't use more than one of the same item per day(because they follow the rules of how character powers work unless otherwise stated, you can't use the same daily power twice per character powers, and the general magic item rules at no point state you can use a daily magic item power more than once a day - obviously, there are items or powers that create specific exceptions to this, but there is no such exception made by the general rules)

Ring of Personal Gravity affects marked or adjacent opponents. If the user is no longer marking or adjacent to an opponent, then those opponents could be ruled to be free of the effect. Seems straightforward enough and within the rules as written. There are multiple ways to have RAW results with the power as listed and the DM can rule which one makes sense to him. And as I noted, as it is a daily magic item use, a DM is well within their rights to say you can't use 3 of the same magic item in a day...

Feb 7, 2010 -- 10:03AM, Hibiki54 wrote:

If I have two Salves of Power in Paragon Tier and use two dailies in the first encounter, by rule I can use both, spend my surges to regain my dailies, but I cannot use any more Daily Magic Items until I hit a milestone.

If that's how you want to interpret the rules, fine. That's a reasonable thing to assume. But that's not what the PHB actually says. And if players are going to demand that DMs play by the RAW, especially literal RAW, especially if ignoring intent, then they have to live with the results as well.

PHB Page 226
"In general, magic item powers follow the same rules as other powers...see page 54"
"Each use of a magic item daily power must come from a different magic item."
"This benefit can be used to activate any magic item daily power that you have not already used this day." 

PHB Page 54
"A daily power can be used once a day."
"Once you use a daily power, you need to take an extended rest before you can use it again."

At no point in time, do the magic item rules actually contradict the rules on page 54. Page 54 explicitly calls out that once you use a daily power, you need to take an extended rest before you can use it again.

i.e once you use a Salve of Power's daily magic item power once, you've used that specific power once and you need to wait a day before you can use it again. A different Salve of Power still uses that same power, so you need to take an extended rest before you use it again. We could interpret that a different Salve of Power is using a different power from the 1st, but that's intent and we don't believe that anyone can rationally judge what designer intent might have been.

Artificer is a specific exception to the rule. Those don't count.

Feb 7, 2010 -- 11:29AM, Drezden wrote:

Obviously, different Salves of Power use different Daily Item Powers.  Salve A uses its power and Salve B uses its power, the fact that the powers are the same don't make them the same item power (since each is from a separate item).  It's not a matter of judging intent either.  The rules are written that way.  The fact that you can try and twist them to mean something else signifies nothing (except that you can come up with creative rules (mis) interpretations.)

While you're doing a fine job of trying to make an interpretation look like it is RAW, being a separate item is not mentioned as being important in the rules. Using the same power(as you just admitted to them being) is mentioned as being important - "Once you use a daily power, you need to take an extended rest before you can use it again." 

And while it might sound crazy to be arguing that, two things:
That's what the rules actually say.

The writers specifically stated that the rules for character powers and magic item powers follow the same basic guidelines. This makes for some obvious RAW - character powers and magic item powers work the same way unless a specific exception is mentioned. Daily character powers that don't have an exception can only be used once a day. What's the specific callout for magic item powers that says they work differently? That it worked that way in 3.5?

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I realize almost no one plays this way(edit: in part because many players won't take the same item twice, so it never even has a chance to be relevant), but just because everyone plays the RAW incorrectly does not make the RAW cease to exist.

Feb 7, 2010 -- 12:13PM, Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:

While you're doing a fine job of trying to make an interpretation look like it is RAW, being a separate item is not mentioned as being important in the rules. Using the same power(as you just admitted to them being) is mentioned as being important - "Once you use a daily power, you need to take an extended rest before you can use it again." 

And while it might sound crazy to be arguing that, two things:
That's what the rules actually say.

The writers specifically stated that the rules for character powers and magic item powers follow the same basic guidelines. This makes for some obvious RAW - character powers and magic item powers work the same way unless a specific exception is mentioned. Daily character powers that don't have an exception can only be used once a day. What's the specific callout for magic item powers that says they work differently? That it worked that way in 3.5?[snip]

[bgibbons - this bottom post is for you ]

The sentence you are referring to is much narrower that you are making out to be.  It says:  "In general, magic item powers follow the same rules as other powers (in that they have ranges, shapes, and so forth)." (emphasis added).  So the only area where they refer back to character powers is in regard to how the powers work -- i.e. with ranges, shapes, etc.  Not to the limitation on taking the same power more than once.

Further, later on page 226 when describing multiple uses of Daily Magic Item powers, it says:  "Each use of a magic item daily power must come from a different magic item."  RAW Salve A is a different magic item than Salve B.  It is not a honest reading of the sentence to say Salve A and B are the same item so you can't use them both.  Moreover, if that was the meaning of the sentence there would certaintly be language stating this.

Let me ask you this, can you think of some cheesy way to prevent someone from using multiple Diamond Cinctures?  There are no daily item powers on that item (yes, it is an amazing item that gets cheap real quick).  Does burning out the Diamond on one somehow invalidate the Diamond on built #2?

Daren