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3 years ago ::
Jan 26, 2010 - 6:51AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
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It definitely seems like things improve a little once players get used to paragon a little. At 11th , especially if it is your first character to reacvh paragon, many paragon powers and feats will seem foreign and hard to get used to but, after a few mods, players get more comfortable with such powers.
That being said, there is alot more going on in given turn. More prevalent and larger area attacks, minor action, free action and immediate reaction powers and more effects make for more rolls made during a given turn. This takes time and all the little interruptive actions have a better chance slowing each players turn as turn get's broken up and forced to recalibrate for what just happened.
I think the higher the level the longer the play time for a given turn but, I think familiarity helps improve that and as we begin to cap-out on how many powers each character has, I think that may plateau a bit until we need to reacclimate to Epic.
My biggest suggestion is to worry less about taking the perfect turn and "helping" other players play their characters. I see this add of alot needless arguments and interruptions to turns. Trust that your fellow players are on the mark, ignore minor inaccuracies that don't seem to bother the DM, respect that some players aren't always going to synergize their actions with yours and worry about knowing and playing your character. If you have an inspired turn, play it out but, keep the game moving unless the rules are really being bent to the point of ruining the game.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 26, 2010 - 2:56PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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having all the monsters go at once can make an encounter significantly more deadly.
A fine consideration: - If the DM is following the "Monsters don’t attack fallen foes" rule per DMG p.40, then this shouldn't do more than knock someone unconscious before the others can react. - If the player was smart and previously delayed until after the healer, then he won't even miss a turn - Even if he does miss a turn, then the combat goes a bit faster (which is the main goal anyway). - A knocked out character actually benefits the party in terms of overall surges (i.e. he is healed up from zero rather than the negative value, so some of the monster's damage was 'wasted') - A knocked out character can make an encounter seem dire and challenging without it neccesarily being so.
That's a really nasty thing to do to Rogues - they usually get free sneak attack on someone based on them going after the Rogue does - the more monsters rolling init, the more likely that is to happen.
Also a fine consideration, the flip-side being that with averaged monster inits the rogue is more likely to go before a particular creature (i.e. to stun the BBEG, target a creature the rest of the party is aiming at, go before an enemies power effect hinders him, etc.). I almost soley play rogues as a player, and (from many previous encounters) I personally would prefer averaged monster inits if given an option.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2010 - 7:38AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2008
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I have one table suggestion and one module design suggestion.
Table: Have the DM announce the "on deck" player when anyone starts a turn. I have players that simply won't plan their turns out more than one player in advance because of battlefield changes, but one player (usually) won't reshape the map such that the next player's plans become unusable. This can save a lot of time over the course of a single combat encounter.
Design: In each combat encounter, replace one standard creature with four minions. Under-use of minions can cause encounters to drag, and LFR adventures seem to be minion-light.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2010 - 8:10AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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As a question tying into this:
Are all those long combats ground out to the last hitpoint regardless of time and situation, or do combats get called? And if so, how?
To DME, or not to DME: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous powergaming, Or to take arms against a sea of Munchkins, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;No more;
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3 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2010 - 12:09PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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Are all those long combats ground out to the last hitpoint regardless of time and situation, or do combats get called? And if so, how?
I typically call combats when it's down to the last enemy and he has no chance of surviving i.e. he's only going to last another round (two tops) with the entire party dishing it out to him.
DM's will often end it here after a final attack by the enemy (to fairly adjudicate the PC's loss of HP/resources)... but that seems to rob the players of their 'victory' a bit, since they don't technically get the last hit.
So instead I typically say something like: "Ok, this guy is just about done for. Everyone make an attack roll. He's dead unless you all miss."
That way almost everyone can claim to get the final shot. It doesn't take anymore time either, since I start cleaning up the board even as they are all rolling simultaneously.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2010 - 2:44PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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DM's will often end it here after a final attack by the enemy (to fairly adjudicate the PC's loss of HP/resources)... but that seems to rob the players of their 'victory' a bit, since they don't technically get the last hit.
Once the fight is effectively over, I'll generally have the enemy (or enemies) make one last attack and then effectively turn into a minion--the next attack that hits kills him.
Unless there are time issues, I dislike explicitly calling a combat since I think that robs players of some of the feeling of victory.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2010 - 12:19AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2006
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Some general suggestions for when the fight is over, choose from:
- Tell the players they have a +5 situational bonus to their intimidate checks; intimidate to surrender is a great way of ending fights for all concerned. Nice role-play, validates skill choices, ends up with a live opponent to be dealt with ...
- Turn all bloodied foes into minions
- Minions will all flee when no non-minions left
- Allow players to trade surges for automatic criticals OR for automatic kills (DM preference)
- Just call it
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3 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2010 - 8:11AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
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I know alot of folks were very opposed to intimidating bloody foes but, as the fights grow more drawn out, the place for that mechanism in the game seems more and more valid as a way to end things quickly.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2010 - 4:52AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Apr 19, 2008
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I know alot of folks were very opposed to intimidating bloody foes but, as the fights grow more drawn out, the place for that mechanism in the game seems more and more valid as a way to end things quickly.
I don't think I've ever had a problem with Intimidating foes as a means to end a fight when appropriate. The thing that gets under my skin is when some player expects it to work universally and cheeses a build around it...insisting that they auto-kill all bloodied monsters with a standard action.
D&D rules were never meant to exist without the presence of a DM. RAW is a lie.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2010 - 10:34AM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2003
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Re: OP:
Long encounters at level 11+? You betcha. That's why as a writer, remember the following:
1. You want to keep encounter exciting. Have things change as the battle progresses to introduce different exciting elements.
2. To cut down on time - PCs optimized off of Intimidate. Call combats that are clearly won, making PCs burn a couple extra surges (allow them to explain if they think they should burn fewer healing surges than you think should be necessary). Or build your encounters to finish fast. Minions use up a lotta XP, but die like flies. Certain terrain lets people do more damage. Etc. etc. etc.
3. Sub in some skill challenges. Skill challenges award lots of XP, and can be fun to roleplay if well designed. And they go a LOT FASTER than combats, even if you put in a lotta roleplay elements.
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