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3 years ago ::
Jan 21, 2010 - 10:44AM
#31
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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When attempting to teleport a target, the caster needs perfect concentration and visualization to move a target seamlessly into the new location. With a willing target, this isn't too complex. With an unwilling target, this can be extremely difficult (requires an attack roll), especially (granting a save) if moving the target to a location where the target is unable to maintain state (ie, standing) or an environmental attack is in the way (hindering terrain).
Poof, some fluff BSing to back up the new rule.
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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3 years ago ::
Jan 21, 2010 - 11:17AM
#32
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OK. Let me see if I can get someone to understand this.
I am using a power which teleports a target. I make an attack roll to see if the teleport goes off. The attack hits, so the target is teleported. If I choose to teleport the target to a space where it has nothing to stand on or where it will get attacked or take damage, the target gets to save to avoid the fall or the damage. If it saves, it negates the teleport.
This should have been set up where if I made an attack roll to teleport the target, they get no save since that's their save. If it's an automatic teleport (like the Swordmage Aegis of Ensnarement teleport) then they can make a save if I decide to put them somewhere unsafe. That way, if I am moving them with a power that has the teleportation in the Hit: line (not the Effect: or Miss: line) then they only get to make the save if I missed (or if the teleport is part of the Effect: line.)
This makes more sense to me and makes it fair to the players (since Elite and Solo monsters get a bonus to saving throws) and to the monsters (since they still get to make a saving throw if the teleport required nothing on the part of the player to accomplish.)
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3 years ago ::
Jan 21, 2010 - 12:05PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
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We are past the point where they could really make this change but, I think a cleaner system would have been to have a blanket penalty of -2 or -5 to attacks that will move the target to a place that will cause it additional damage beyond the power and equipment used. Maybe something to add to the next edition.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 21, 2010 - 12:08PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
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Is the resistance to this update that it somehow allows enemies to be teleported vertically now? My reading suggests that teleports would still only move enemies horizontally.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 21, 2010 - 12:10PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2008
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If you consider teleports to be forced movement and since forced movement is still only horizontal ... yeah, you could make that case.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 21, 2010 - 4:39PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Of course, there's a way to make the new ruling not hurt ones sensibilities and let it have sensible outcomes in game: Don't telelport things into the air. Please resume. 
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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3 years ago ::
Jan 22, 2010 - 11:57AM
#37
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2006
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This new ruling rocks Elemental Maw even more. Because if the target resists being teleported 20 squares up, they instead remain where they are: in the vortex. So now what? Still being in the vortex means they would have to take damage again and have to make another save vs. teleporting 100 feet into the air. Rinse repeat until they are either consumed by the vortex or fall 100 feet.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 22, 2010 - 12:05PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Eh, there'll be a dozen more rules updates before anybody is using Elemental Maw. Plenty of time for them to get it right, or wrong in a completely new way.
In the meantime though, what does this mean for Voidcrystal Weapons? You don't pick the destination square when you activate the power, but on the following turn when they reappear. And the power does not require the creature to come back on solid ground. So if you pick a destination 3 squares up in the air, does the creature get a save? If it makes it, does it simply not reappear? (Hey, the teleportation failed!) Do they try again next turn, or just never make it back to this world?
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3 years ago ::
Jan 22, 2010 - 12:14PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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I would let the creature return in its original square. (Or choose its destination.)
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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3 years ago ::
Jan 22, 2010 - 12:15PM
#40
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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This new ruling rocks Elemental Maw even more.
Because if the target resists being teleported 20 squares up, they instead remain where they are: in the vortex. So now what? Still being in the vortex means they would have to take damage again and have to make another save vs. teleporting 100 feet into the air. Rinse repeat until they are either consumed by the vortex or fall 100 feet.
The elemental vortex (in the maw) is a single square that does damage and teleports creatures pulled into it - if you try to teleport them into the air or into hindering terrain, and they make their save, they're just left standing there. Where they can proceed to leave as they see fit. It's just a square.
But the real sucky part is that no other creatures in the area burst 4 can now be pulled into that vortex square, since it's occupied.
So, elemental maw is likely slightly worse now, since you can make a save against being teleported into hindering terrain.
Void crystal is interesting, though. If I had to make a ruling, I'd say that you got to pick a spot within 3 squares as normal, and if it made the save, it either appears in the closest legal square, or the target gets to pick a legal square (only if closest legal doesn't work for some reason)
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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