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3 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2010 - 2:02PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2005
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Best I have gotten is I GM'ed in a store once and got $15 store credit outta it.
Otherwise the other 20+ games I have run I have gotten a slice of pizza even if I couldn't chip in, that kinda thing, etc.
Christopher Green
RPGA# 5209379759
Aelar Tel'ess'san - Elven Cleric Lvl 4
Veloch Shade - Tiefling Rogue Lvl 4
Adaeth the Mindwalker - Deva Psion Lvl 2
The Story Tellers' Guild
The Roleplaying Association of SUNY Oswego
http://www.oswego.edu/stg
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3 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2010 - 6:11PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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The danger is in your DM population realizing it "doesn't need" the bulk of the population to play, and essentially divorcing itself from the bulk of the players (that has happened around here recently).
I'd consider that the usual end stage of a gaming group.
Most gaming groups start as a group of friends: you rotate DMing and those who don't DM contribute in other ways or you let them ride because you value their participation.
Once you hit the point that your DMs can form tables all of their own, rotating amongst themselves for DMing, you need ties of friendship or some other connection to those in the group who just play. Otherwise, the DMs will eventually realize that, out of everyone in the equation, the players are the least necessary.
Alternatively, the DMs can keep running for the takers of the group because of friendship with or bribery from the event organizer himself, but that tends to be wearing on the organizer, since the most likely currency is running more games for the DMs (of which the organizer will need to run a disproportionate number himself, as a DM that's running a slot zero is a DM that is going to want to play on the game day).
Sure, you have those who DM for public play purely out of the goodness of their heart (or for the ego boost or whatever other motives cause people to do volunteer work), but those are few and far between, and their overgenerous nature means they'll eventually get burnt out as well.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 5:33AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Dec 23, 2009
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There are many reasons for DMing. I've rarely had the opportunity to play since my son was born 10 years ago. In the past year he found my KODT stash, and we've gotten a set of 4th ed rules and his Crown Royal dice bag is filling up. (yeah, I'm all for tradition).
My belief is that it's fair to DM 1/6 of the time. My son can't DM, so I'd have to DM 1/3 of the time just to not put a strain on the local club. My plan is to DM 1/2 of the time, taking the noobs/kids table. To me that seems like the fair exchange in return for my son and I having a regular place to play. DMing half the time is one way for me to support and grow the club.
The difference between that 1/3 and 1/2 (or conventionally 1/6 and 1/4) is simply that fair ISN'T enough. There will often be new players who don't know the rules well enough to DM. I'll be in that boat for a couple more sessions. There will often be younger players who aren't trusted to DM yet, either because of known behaviors or because they aren't known well enough yet. Heck, there are often older players not trusted for the same reasons. There are also people who don't want to DM, but serve the club in other ways (RPGA liason, store employee, the guy with cases of miniatures and three megamats who doesn't mind sharing).
The other point here is that the club often either needs to give people a direct reason to DM (see bribes above. [Does the RPGA still send out swag to DMs who get X number of points?]) or needs to give people a reason to feel they have a vested interest in keeping the club going (by DMing). When the DM population begins divorcing itself from the players that means the club itself isn't attractive to the DMs. It's failed to provide the location or atmosphere or assistance that makes the pooling of resources a good thing.
To me, the key difference is when grandpoobah says 'your DM population realizing it "doesn't need" the bulk of the population to play' which tells me that the club has become a home for people who can't or won't GM, since they're the bulk. That's not a pooling of resources, it's a pooling of leeches.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 6:42AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Unfortunately some people just don't "pay where they play" aka showing up to take advantage of the offered FLGS-gaming-space with their books being bought from amazon because that's $5 cheaper than the store offering the gaming space.
When I used to run LG stuff I always tried to encourage people to buy from the store we were playign in. At least while we playing there. (Obviously once we had to stop playing at the store I didn't push people to do so anymore)
Although my FLGS sells at cover value, so Amazon to me is $11 cheaper and free shipping. I buy my D&D minis when I'm there though.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 9:19AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
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At the store I play at, Warhorned-scheduled games are 5 dollars a head to play with the DMs getting a 7 dollar credit.
Wow...that strikes me as pretty expensive, given that a one-round LFR ticket at GenCon runs around $6.50. But, hey, if it works for you guys, more power to you.
Keep in mind that some fraction of your convention badge fee should be figured into that cost as well. When I consider what I paid in fees at GenCon against what I actually took part in, I probably paid 10 dollars a slot. Local cons are probably closer to 7 or 8 dollars a slot.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 9:29AM
#26
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Keep in mind that some fraction of your convention badge fee should be figured into that cost as well. When I consider what I paid in fees at GenCon against what I actually took part in, I probably paid 10 dollars a slot. Local cons are probably closer to 7 or 8 dollars a slot.
OK, that's fair...but, still, $5 for a slot at a game store strikes me as expensive. Maybe it's just me, but, in my area, I simply don't see people charging for small game days like that. And, I don't think that our local cons work out to more than about $5 per slot.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 10:01AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Although my FLGS sells at cover value, so Amazon to me is $11 cheaper and free shipping. I buy my D&D minis when I'm there though.
Yeah, I personally participate in a "reward miles" program that allows reward miles to be converted into gift cards at an online bookstore, and I am awarded these reward miles for purchasing things I would buy anyway via a method I would use anyway, so gaming books are, for all intents and purposes, free for me (my wife and I split the gift cards, and I still get enough to preorder every player-resource type book).
My FLGS guy is aware of this, and he's also aware that every $ I don't spend on D&D books I spend at his store on Warhammer miniatures (literally true, as I have put myself on a very specific/strict gaming $ budget).
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 10:06AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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To give further data points, our local gaming group doesn't charge anything to play. (Nor do I believe do any of the gaming groups within an hour or two's drive that I'm familiar with.) DMs at our regular game days do get $2 store credit per LFR slot, however, which is a function of one of the partners who owns the store being a D&D player who wants to grow the hobby.
I don't have any problem with the concept of game fees, but I think it creates a different dynamic.
If a group of friends show up to play, one of them is going to have to offer to give of his time so the rest can play, and it's just common courtesy to take turns. If you're a complete stranger that these friends are willing to accept, it's even more incumbent on you to not take advantage of their generosity.
If I'm being charged $5 to play a game, then I'm now a customer, a consumer of entertainment. I don't offer to take a shift behind the register to give the store clerk a break; why should I feel differently about the DM the group or store has provided for the game?
I guess I see charging to play as entering a separate arena. Once money is involved, then it becomes a simple mercantile exchange, more of a business relationship than a cooperative group where everyone's in it together.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 10:20AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
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I would agree that alot of gamers balk at 5 dollars a slot. I know Flagship in CT where I play has fewer players in it's LFR nights because of it. Players have told me that is why they do not attend. It's more than I am accustomed to spending out side of conventions but, ultimately, the bottleneck seems to be willing DMs more than players to fill the seats. Were I the owner, I would do it differently but, at the same time, I recognize the expenses involved and feel I do get value for my entertainment dollar. A dollar an hour to hang out in a business and engage in your activity of choice is cheap compared to about anything else.
A typical local con (2 hours away or less) for me generally yields 6 or 7 played mods. Friday evening, 3 on Saturday, 2 on Sunday and maybe a midnight madness slot for 25-40 dollars and possibly 2-3 dollars per event ticket. So, 6-7 slots for let's say 30-45 dollars. Yes I could eek a few more games by getting there earlier and staying up later but, this how many weekend cons work out for me and quite a few others. Maybe not, the 7-8 I though but still upwards of 5 per slot. When you begin to consider precious free time spent travelling, gas and lodging, it's easy to see how many players are valuing the opportunity to play mods they want at something like 10 dollars or more.
When the issue seems to be a lack of incentive to DMs, paying to play seems to make the perfect sense. Myself, I like Pandemonium's method of a set DM bribe that get's spent in the store. Players very directly see what they are paying for, the DM gets his incentive and presumably large fraction of it translates into profit when the DM spends his bribe. 2 bucks seems to work for them. I'll bet few people would have issue with 3 and bet 5 dollars with some sort of bulk discount could fly in some places.
Especially if you aren't DMing much, make sure your DM is being taken care of and don't forget your FLGS needs to make something for their effort.
Lee
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 8:45PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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My FLGS guy is aware of this, and he's also aware that every $ I don't spend on D&D books I spend at his store on Warhammer miniatures (literally true, as I have put myself on a very specific/strict gaming $ budget).
Ahh... Warhammer is like crack... I mean like a warm blanket... CRACK!
Please! I just need to finish this army! I swear I won't build anymo... rrr... *twitch twitch*... Oh, God please let me build that alternate Cult of Slaanesh Dark Elf army, PLEASE!!
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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