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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 12:06PM
#21
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Am I the only one who is a lot more worried about how we'll get a lot more people who have _really bad_ characters, as a result of hybrids? Like you think you're getting a defender or leader, or somesuch, and you're really getting a guy who _can_ mark, but never does since he's not using that at-will... or can heal... once per encounter... at 16th... for hardly any extra.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 12:36PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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Am I the only one who is a lot more worried about how we'll get a lot more people who have _really bad_ characters, as a result of hybrids?
No.
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 1:00PM
#23
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This is a good point. One of the selling points of 4.0 was supposed to be that even "bad" players could make decent characters, i.e. the power curve was flatter. By opening up complexity you do invite people to try characters who end up being jack of all trades (an mediocre way) and master of none. Daren Am I the only one who is a lot more worried about how we'll get a lot more people who have _really bad_ characters, as a result of hybrids? Like you think you're getting a defender or leader, or somesuch, and you're really getting a guy who _can_ mark, but never does since he's not using that at-will... or can heal... once per encounter... at 16th... for hardly any extra.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 1:09PM
#24
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Yep, like Str/Wis fighter/avengers trying to get by on armor of faith and no secondary stat, while defending with half of their powers not marking and no combat superiority.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 1:41PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2008
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You can get that now with players that have a Fighter with STR 14 and don't know how to play their PCs. How would this be any different?
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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 1:45PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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You can get that now with players that have a Fighter with STR 14 and don't know how to play their PCs. How would this be any different?
It'd be less common. Most of the new players I run into didn't use the Character Builder to make their characters, just the core PHB.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 1:47PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2004
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Not knowing that you need a 18 strength to be effective is entirely different from not knowing that a hybrid paladin/fighter is far more effective than a normal fighter.
The PHB recommends you start with an 18 strength. The PHB does not have a "WARNING: Please refer to PHB3 for how to make a more effective character".
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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 1:50PM
#28
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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We left "Level Playing Field" many moons ago... after every book/article that followed the PH. Turns out that unbalanced is a nice selling point and makes buckets of cash!  And yet, we can still have fun with old builds. Not optimal (compare Paladins then and now... ), but certainly enjoyable. I have a number of weak builds on purpose (Dwarven Tactical Warlord for the win!!!) and the game is still fun - sometimes more! Again, we can't say "LFR is a little easy" on one hand and "I can't survive not being super-optimized" with the other.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 1:58PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2006
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Y'know, up until this point, I had faith in our admins. Sure, I thought they were a little soft as far as how they handled errata, but i could see their reasoning. But hybrids are as bad as gestalts were in 3.5 In a home game where everyone was a gestalt, it was fine back then. But normal characters and Gestalt couldnt mix. The non gestalt would always feel underpowered and would be right in feeling so. Now we have modern day gestalts aka hybrids. Pick the best features and powers of 2 classes and make a character w/o any of the flaws/drawbacks of a normal one. Feychargers are only the tip of the iceberg. Soon, we'll have the Bleeder that does ongoing 93 with a -20 to the save so the monster dies from being hit once, or other shenanigans. Or even a simple fighter/paladin that will combat challenge you in melee or divine challenge you at range. Its already hard to ignore a fighter mark, this makes it impossible w/o taking a buncha damage. Which BTW, is better than any normal paladin or normal fighter. Why would you ever paragon multiclass like ferol loves to? Why be a half-elf, when you can be even better as a hybrid? Its one thing to allow pre errata grasp of the grave or dice of auspicious fortune, because while they were/are overpowered, they didnt break any paradigms of the game. Classes had to multiclass in order to get versatility, as in everyone had to pay for it. I sense a lot of avenger/swordmages in the coming months that are nigh invincible because you can stack armor of faith and warding.
I really hope the admins change their minds and put this concept back where it belongs, in home games, and not LFR.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 08, 2010 - 1:58PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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a hybrid paladin/fighter is far more effective than a normal fighter..
Please explain how... I'm not seeing this. (no combat challenge, harder access to the paladin striker stuff, no lay on hands without spending a feat, Immediate action to do your damage vs. free, which also takes the fighter's immedate action to hit somthing. Only one Paladin at-will, which limits your Power of X synergies, -1 TH without spending a feat (and thus no lay on hands), etc. Your Sanction damage is ignoreable (can't be fixed w/ a feat)...
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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