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3 years ago ::
Jan 03, 2010 - 9:58AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Dec 15, 2005
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Call me stupid but I don't understand it unless you can sell residium for full prize you would gain nothing.
I looked through the LFR CCG and found no mention of selling residium, afb so no sure about the core rules though?
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3 years ago ::
Jan 03, 2010 - 2:17PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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Call me stupid but I don't understand it unless you can sell residium for full prize you would gain nothing.
I looked through the LFR CCG and found no mention of selling residium, afb so no sure about the core rules though?
Residuum has a value equal to the value of a magic item you could create with it per core rules. Some societies even use it in place of gold. In other words, if you have 5000 gold worth of residuum, you could sell it for 5000.
This generally works out because the only way you get residuum is by destroying magic items via the disenchant ritual, which only gives 20% of the value. Rust Monsters are a special exception.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 03, 2010 - 7:18PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Scrolls of Enchant Magic Item are also relatively cheap, so you can purchase them and happily turn that +3 Plate worth of Residium into different magic items easily enough, or have a Ritual Caster do it for you for free within the LFR rules.
And really- why do we care about this?
Sure in 3E this might have been a problem, but there are so few items in 4E that are noteworthy (and face it they tend to get "updated") that it doesn't seem like it is worth our time as a community to worry about a few people that think they are being clever by doing this.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 03, 2010 - 10:52PM
#14
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Some societies even use it in place of gold. In other words, if you have 5000 gold worth of residuum, you could sell it for 5000.
This generally works out because the only way you get residuum is by destroying magic items via the disenchant ritual,
The PHB only says that you can't buy it at usual markets, but it doesn't say that you can't buy it (being able to buy it is also a direct side effect of societies using it as currency).
So while I am fine in LFR with not getting any residuum at the local farmer's market in Archendale, I do expect to be eventually able to buy it at the efreeti market quarter in the City of Brass or at some market in Corellon's astral domain.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 03, 2010 - 11:04PM
#15
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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Sure in 3E this might have been a problem, but there are so few items in 4E that are noteworthy (and face it they tend to get "updated") that it doesn't seem like it is worth our time as a community to worry about a few people that think they are being clever by doing this.
I don't agree with this at all. Items are still huge for many builds, especially the ability to get the exact weapon you want. Many of the choose "item level X or less" bundles are used by players this way. But, those tend to be rewards that are seen rarely, 2-3 times a year. Thus, it is fine and helps players get items they really want. A group abusing MYREs to get exactly what they want with rust monsters would basically be turning the bundle system into a way to choose the exact items they want all the time. That's a huge benefit.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 04, 2010 - 12:15AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2005
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Sure in 3E this might have been a problem, but there are so few items in 4E that are noteworthy (and face it they tend to get "updated") that it doesn't seem like it is worth our time as a community to worry about a few people that think they are being clever by doing this.
I don't agree with this at all. Items are still huge for many builds, especially the ability to get the exact weapon you want. Many of the choose "item level X or less" bundles are used by players this way. But, those tend to be rewards that are seen rarely, 2-3 times a year. Thus, it is fine and helps players get items they really want. A group abusing MYREs to get exactly what they want with rust monsters would basically be turning the bundle system into a way to choose the exact items they want all the time. That's a huge benefit.
I don't see what else you would do with a "get item of level X or less." Maybe get one that you don't want?
As for the abusers, I would think that the issue is not that they are getting items that they really want--that is already possible (by taking a high-level bundle or two, selling it, and buying the exact item that you want). And, unless they are breaking other rules, rust monster abuse does not help them do that any earlier--they can still only buy or create items of their level or lower. What it does do is allow them to use it to get many more items that are exactly what they want. Rather than turning a level 13 item into a vanguard weapon, the rust monster trick would enable them to turn it into a vanguard weapon... and 4 other level 8 items of the player's choice. Selling bundles to buy items of your choice is horribly inefficient. Rust monstering bundles, on the other hand, is potentially even more efficient than getting the item you want in a bundle. That is a problem.
I agree that it's a benefit and that the loophole should probably be closed. (Even if no-one is abusing it which may not be the case). Any of the following rules would do the trick: a blanket "no rust monsters in MYREs", "No Rust Monsters in LFR", or "Items destroyed by a rust monster (or any other means of reducing an item to residuum with greater than 20% efficiency) are automatically fixed at the end of the mod--and if any of the residuum was spent in the mean-time, the value of said residuum must be deducted from the owner's gold; in no case can the expenditure of residuum from a greater than 20% efficient item to residuum conversion add permanent benefits to a PC."
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3 years ago ::
Jan 04, 2010 - 2:28PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2005
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The Globals are going to discuss this during next week's meeting and get back to you.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 04, 2010 - 2:29PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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Umm..... None of you people did not see this coming?
You guys like to blame the players alot...
Honestly, the first question that should have been asked is:
Why did WOTC, RPGA, et al. allow the Rust Monster with that particular power be created and allowed in 4th ed.?
Sometimes I read alot of these posts and I swear that if everyone was given a stick to fight with, some of you would cry overpowered when some of the players sharpened their stick to fight with and cry broken if other players attached a heavy rock to the end of the stick.
Aribeth
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3 years ago ::
Jan 04, 2010 - 2:47PM
#19
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Umm..... None of you people did not see this coming?
You guys like to blame the players alot...
Honestly, the first question that should have been asked is:
Why did WOTC, RPGA, et al. allow the Rust Monster with that particular power be created and allowed in 4th ed.?
Sometimes I read alot of these posts and I swear that if everyone was given a stick to fight with, some of you would cry overpowered when some of the players sharpened their stick to fight with and cry broken if other players attached a heavy rock to the end of the stick.
Aribeth
Because the interaction is fine in a home game - if a Rust Monster eats your stuff, you get residuum equal to the value of the stuff you lost. This is only an issue in LFR because of the way it distributes treasure. Wizards can't limit the monsters they create just for LFR.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 04, 2010 - 4:51PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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OK...
But the RPGA can by adding a rule within their CCG...
LFR is just another campaign akin to all the existing home campaigns with their own "house" rules.
But that doesnt answer the question of why have that monster with that particular power introduced at all. It basically tattooes a sign on it's forehead say PLEASE ABUSE THIS POWER.
If you were running a home campaign and did a lot of work in balancing your campaign's economy, would you put a rust monster in an encounter that you create to mess up the economy you spent time trying to balance?
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