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3 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2010 - 1:37AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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It blows my mind that anyone, DM or player, would think this was a valid thing to do in a MYRE. Really? Put in a rust monster and come out ahead and that should be ok? Really? 
Used to blow my mind as well, but starting to see it as par for the course.
I am trying to be a bigger person and ignore it while chanting mantra's of "it doesn't bother me". That is not completely working yet but I have gotten far enough that I can mostly shrug it off as an illustration of the lengths some people feel they need to go to to stay 'special'.
I figure if that is what they need to have fun then I will have to learn to have it not ruin mine.
To DME, or not to DME: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous powergaming, Or to take arms against a sea of Munchkins, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;No more;
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3 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2010 - 7:51AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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I'm still not persuaded there is really a problem here, and I'm one of those crazy people that will select higher level items to sell so they can buy what they want (and given I just did this with a Wizard who can Enchant Items).
*shrug* The balance of 4E items is (by and large) such that I'm still not really seeing the problem (excepting in the case of Artificiers.. there I see the problem in this case).
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3 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2010 - 12:33PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2001
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The issue with sing Rust monsters is NOT that someone might be able to get somthing they would not normally be able to get.
You can't. It doesn't alter the rules on access at all.
What it DOES do is skew the game economy a bit.
Normally, a character eventually out-grows old magic items, either they get newer shinier replacements for the slot or the item just isn't effective at their level anymore.
The system assumes you either just sell/disenchant the old item for cash, or perhaps just store it away somewhere. You lose most of the gold value of the item in either case. It's a resource sink, effectively.
Using Rust monsters, you remove that resource sink from the system. Characters will end up with more gold than expected, which can skew their power level.
That said, I don't think this will make THAT much of a difference. I'm not sure it's worth worrying about.
Most times what makes or breaks a game isn't what magic items the characters have, but how smart and tactical the players are.
-karma
LFR Characters:
Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard
Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard
Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
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3 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2010 - 4:18PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2004
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Wait until you play with someone who has a Bloodiron Weapon +4 and two War Rings while you scrounged and vendored three different item slots just to get your +3 Black Iron armor.
Rust Monster MYREs destroy the item/money balance in the game.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2010 - 4:21PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Normally, a character eventually out-grows old magic items, either they get newer shinier replacements for the slot or the item just isn't effective at their level anymore.
I can't say I condone this kind of behavior, but here's the devil's advocate view:
In a core game, a character does out-grow old magic items, yes, but they don't usually sell them, they pass them to someone else in the group. With the large number of item slots and the fact that most magic items are going to be taking care of upgrades to the big three, someone probably has that slot open or can use a backup weapon/implement.
In a core rules game, PC A finds 10th level boots he likes, so he passes on his 5th level boots to PC B. PC B finds 10th level gloves he prefers, so he passes on his 5th level gloves to PC C. So, as a whole, the group now has two 10th level items and two 5th level items.
In LFR, PC A and B find 10th level items they like. They can't pass on their 5th level items, so they find a friendly rust monster, tempt it with their magic items until he bites, cut him open and use the residuum to each make a 5th level item they prefer.
As a result, this LFR group as a whole ends up with two 10th level items and two 5th level items, the same as the core rules group.
Rust monsters are a way of turning low-level items you don't want any more until other low-level items you do. You could say that a core rules game already has a mechanism to accomplish that--trading amongst players--so the MYRE method is just coming with an alternate solution to accomplish the same ends.
Still, there is a stink of DM/player collusion to go against the spirit of the rules that I dislike about this system, and it does obviously provide the player with a slight advantage over core, but I don't think that the potential for disrupting the game economy is that severe.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2010 - 8:42PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Wait until you play with someone who has a Bloodiron Weapon +4 and two War Rings while you scrounged and vendored three different item slots just to get your +3 Black Iron armor.
Rust Monster MYREs destroy the item/money balance in the game.
A situation only achievable with an Master Crafter Artificer. If they can only craft items of level or lower then there is no real advantage to doing it.
Keep in mind rust monsters don't eat everything magical, they just eat Weapons/Implements and Armour (at high enough level).
So someone needs to have enough magic items of the right types, to have them all disenchanted by the Rust Monster and then they still need an Artificer with the Master Crafter feat to make something above their level.
Remember to make a level 10 item it takes 2 level 9 items or 3 level 8, etc.. So where are they getting all these weapons, implements and armour from that are being disenchanted to create these uber items while still having items left at the end to fill the vacant slots?
I'm more worried that people are blatantly cheating and allowing the rust monster to do something it doesn't than that they are somehow abusing the rust monster.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2010 - 11:32PM
#37
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A situation only achievable with an Master Crafter Artificer. If they can only craft items of level or lower then there is no real advantage to doing it.
There is the huge advantage of being able to affort to craft the item of your level which you couldn't affort otherwise.
Remember to make a level 10 item it takes 2 level 9 items or 3 level 8, etc.. So where are they getting all these weapons, implements and armour from that are being disenchanted to create these uber items while still having items left at the end to fill the vacant slots?
It takes 2 level 9 items with 3,400gp left over for someone who abuses rust monsters. It takes 6 level 9 items with 40gp left over for someone who don't.
E.g. I have 3 level 6 items. I could turn them into a single single level 5 item with 60gp left over without a rust monster or I could turn them into a single level 10 item with 400gp left over by feeding them to a rust monster.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 12:35AM
#38
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My experience with items in a home campaign is different. Virtually all items are sold after about 5 to 10 levels of use (with 10 being rare and reserved mostly for those truly useful items). Armor, implements, neck slot items and weapons are either sold within 5 levels of use without being passsed on or upgraded. Even if these items are passed to the next PC, they are sold within 5 levels of being found. The exception can be basic weapon enchantments that might be passed to a secondary weapon, most likely a javelin or dagger to serve as a backup ranged weapon. Still, 5 levels later that weapon is sold as well and that is assuming it is an enchantment that can be placed on a range weapon. Generic items might be kept longer, but in many cases their use is specialized and handing them over to the next PC has no meaning or that character has another item that is more useful even though it is a lower level item. For example, in my campaign the rogue found longthrower gloves, useful for him since he loves to throw daggers, no other PC in the group is to ever find it useful.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 8:42AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2004
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There is currently two level 18 items floating around in various modules. Feeding those to a rust monster gives more than enough cash to get whatever you could want .
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3 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2010 - 1:10AM
#40
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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There is currently two level 18 items floating around in various modules. Feeding those to a rust monster gives more than enough cash to get whatever you could want .
Of course, a normal rust monster can't eat them, even if they are the right kind of item....
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