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3 years ago ::
Dec 23, 2009 - 6:03AM
#61
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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The card clearly states that it ends the dazed condition.
If the player has ongoing 5 and dazed (save ends both) and uses Snap Out of It, they are still taking the ongoing 5 (save ends). The card only ends the dazed condition.
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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3 years ago ::
Dec 23, 2009 - 6:43AM
#62
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2004
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The card clearly states that it ends the dominated condition.
Text from the card below. It says nothing about domination on it.
Benefit: When you would become dazed, use this card to end that
condition. Turn this card sideways to indicate that it is used.
When this card is used, the bonus indicated on it becomes active for the rest of the game
session. you may give any one ally the bonus indicated to any one d20 roll after the roll
has been made. Only one card bonus may be given to a d20 roll. Flip the card face down
or remove it from the play area when the bonus has been assigned.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 23, 2009 - 6:45AM
#63
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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Fixed. Thanks!
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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3 years ago ::
Dec 23, 2009 - 2:04PM
#64
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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The card clearly states that it ends the dazed condition.
If the player has ongoing 5 and dazed (save ends both) and uses Snap Out of It, they are still taking the ongoing 5 (save ends). The card only ends the dazed condition.
Well sure, no one's arguing that. In such a case you have a condition and ongoing damage. So it makes sense that it would get rid of the daze.
However, with Domination, you are not under the dazed condition. You are under the Dominated condition. Domination does not place two separate conditions on you, it's one condition that carries the effects of another one but you didn't become affected by the Dazed condition.
It's unfortunate that they worded it that way, but I'm sure they didn't write the PHB with RPGA reward cards in mind.
If I was DMing and someone was adamant that they should be able to use the card when Dominated I would go ahead and allow it, but then you're just giving the controlling creature more actions to work with.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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3 years ago ::
Dec 23, 2009 - 2:35PM
#65
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Domination does not place two separate conditions on you, it's one condition that carries the effects of another one but you didn't become affected by the Dazed condition.
It might help to consider the other cases where one condition is carried within another. Restrained carries Immobilized inside it. Unconscious carries Helpless inside it explicitly, and Blinded and Deafened implicitly. Think about hypothetical cards that prevented/cured/ended the Immobilized or Deafened conditions - would they help with Restrained or Unconscious?
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3 years ago ::
Dec 23, 2009 - 2:49PM
#66
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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I've often seen the ruling that if you have 'ongoing 5 and dazed (save ends both)' and use Snap, that you end the ongoing 5. Just like when Immunizing armor* lets you end ongoing poison, say ongoing 5 poison and weakened (save ends both) I've generally seen it ruled that you are no longer weakened. It's far more clear for abilities like Boots of Free Movement where you get a save against a condition (ex: slowed), and that save in turn cures another condition along with it (ex: dazed).
* Power (Encounter): Immediate Reaction. Use this power when you gain ongoing poison damage. The ongoing poison damage ends.
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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3 years ago ::
Dec 24, 2009 - 11:56AM
#67
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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I've often seen the ruling that if you have 'ongoing 5 and dazed (save ends both)' and use Snap, that you end the ongoing 5. Just like when Immunizing armor* lets you end ongoing poison, say ongoing 5 poison and weakened (save ends both) I've generally seen it ruled that you are no longer weakened. It's far more clear for abilities like Boots of Free Movement where you get a save against a condition (ex: slowed), and that save in turn cures another condition along with it (ex: dazed).
* Power (Encounter): Immediate Reaction. Use this power when you gain ongoing poison damage. The ongoing poison damage ends.
Unlike many amulets or even Instinctive Reaction, Snap Out of It simply ends the specific condition (actually before it even kicks in). This isn't a save (so, "save ends both" isn't really relevant). Immunizing should work the same way. I can see DMs ruling a different way based on context (the poison bite slows as part of the damage), but it would be folly for a player to expect this, IMHO.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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3 years ago ::
Dec 24, 2009 - 9:39PM
#68
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Is the damage "ongoing poison"? If yes immunizing armor works on it, removing the effect, it having other effects is irrelevant.
Now you can follow the precedent set by Resistances, but the rules are actually silent on this issue. Perhaps that needs to be brought up with WotC after the holidays.
Like wise with Snap out of It. Is the effect imposing the Dazed Condition explicitly? If yes end the effect by using Snap Out Of It. It doesn't matter if it is imposing another effect at the same time.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 27, 2009 - 3:56PM
#69
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2007
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(I was out of town/contact for the past few days.)
It seems that I was mistaken about the specific wording of Snap Out Of It and the problem I was worried about. This is good news to me.
Looking back over some of the proposals, I disagree with one small part of Teos' suggestion (and the related follow-ups): Using a custom Creation card to get access to nonstandard rules comes at a small cost -- using up a card slot. Often this cost meliorates itself over time (when the nonstandard rules become `core'), but there's no reason to remove this small balancing effect from the campaign.
Creation cards are for `rare' options, and IMO should stay that way. Making them impose a small cost is not too high a price to pay; making them free for everyone removes the idea that those options are at least somewhat rare, while potentially creating a system where people feel like they're `wasting' a card slot (contrast this to Quest cards, for example). I feel things are simpler and more balanced if Creation cards are special only in that you have to pick them to start, can't trade them later, and only have one.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 27, 2009 - 4:54PM
#70
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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Looking back over some of the proposals, I disagree with one small part of Teos' suggestion (and the related follow-ups): Using a custom Creation card to get access to nonstandard rules comes at a small cost -- using up a card slot. Often this cost meliorates itself over time (when the nonstandard rules become `core'), but there's no reason to remove this small balancing effect from the campaign.
Creation cards are for `rare' options, and IMO should stay that way. Making them impose a small cost is not too high a price to pay; making them free for everyone removes the idea that those options are at least somewhat rare, while potentially creating a system where people feel like they're `wasting' a card slot (contrast this to Quest cards, for example). I feel things are simpler and more balanced if Creation cards are special only in that you have to pick them to start, can't trade them later, and only have one.
I don't have a strong preference, but in general the races seem pretty balanced to me. You can generally be just as strong with or without a creation card.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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