|
3 years ago ::
Dec 17, 2009 - 1:16PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2004
|
In the 11-14 mods I run the players have 5 rewards cards (not including quests) in their stack. This has made some encounters trivial. When the mods get to epic they will have 8 or 9 cards in their stack. I think some changes to the card implemtation would help the game.
No multiple copies of cards in a stack
2 cards at heroic (plus quest cards)
3 at paragon (plus quest cards)
4 at epic (plus quest cards)
At the cons I go to the cards are DM rewards only. And to get them you have to run at least three events. Wizards is having problems with their schedule of releasing two sets of cards on PDF each year. What is the alternative for players that do not want to buy them off e-bay?
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 17, 2009 - 2:11PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
|
Overall i think fewer cards is best. (Heck, i quite frequently forget my cards... and have played at many card-less tables) Allpow one creation card and one quest card that don't count towards your stack and then allow 2 or 3 cards max. Ever.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 17, 2009 - 2:37PM
#3
|
- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
|
At this point part of me would be fine with just getting rid of the cards, but failing that...
How about two cards. They have to be different cards. Move right along.
That way there's an actual choice. As opposed to me throwing two Snaps in my paragon character's stack cause why not, and That'll Do in every character's, etc.
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 17, 2009 - 4:10PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2005
|
At this point part of me would be fine with just getting rid of the cards, but failing that...
How about two cards. They have to be different cards. Move right along.
That way there's an actual choice. As opposed to me throwing two Snaps in my paragon character's stack cause why not, and That'll Do in every character's, etc.
I'll second this. Get rid of them altogether.
Or two cards only which must be different.
The more of them there are the more they skew the game.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2009 - 7:40AM
#5
|
|
|
I'd normally be in favor of ditching them, but many players seem to really like them, so I would be reluctant to take away something people like. I would be in favor of severely restricting the number you can have in your stack: two or three at most, as others have suggested.
I'd also like to see more clarity on the cards as to how and when they function; i.e., do some of them function as Immediate Reactions? If so, they should explicitly say so.
And finally, to avoid card bloat, why not just make one generic card that allows any power source to re-roll its at-will attacks?
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2009 - 8:08AM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
|
I do like the cards but, would have to agree there are too many per game. Fewer cards and no repeats sounds like a good compromise. My suggestion would be:
1-8 - 2 cards
10-18 - 3 cards
20-28 - 4 cards
29-30 - 5 cards
I have seen them going to players and DMs at the cons I have been attending.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2009 - 8:35AM
#7
|
|
|
My suggestion: If you don't like them don't use them. Talk to your group and if all agree it's fine. If there's no agreement you have a problem with conflicting playstyle preferences and you're not automatically the most entitled only because you actually want things to be more difficult. I like them very much and I'd like to continue using them like until now. At the cons I go to the cards are DM rewards only. And to get them you have to run at least three events.
Which not something that WoTC decided.
It's entirely up to the Con organizers how to distribute the cards WotC sends them. If they want to only give them out to GMs it's their decision. If they want to give one to every player, its their decision. If they want to randomly give them every d20th person walking past one of their tables it's also their decision.
So if you're unhappy with how the cards are distributed at your local con, talk the the con organizers
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2009 - 9:07AM
#8
|
- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
|
It would be really nice to see the number of cards toned down. 5 at Paragon... crazy.
I would also like to see future cards toned down. More flavor, more fun-enabling, less cakewalk-inducing.
I kind of like the following:
Quest cards are free.
Up to one creation card.
1st 1 card Total:1+Creation
6th: +1 Total:2+Creation
11th: +1 Total:3+Creation
21st: +1 Total:4+Creation
26th: +1 Total:5+Creation
This is a net loss of 4 cards, though just three cards if you would have used a creation card. It is still much more reasonable.
Ideally, I would take this further, by creating a new type of card, called something like "Flavor" or "Utility", which would be more along the lines of flavor and fun. I wrote about this in another thread: grant minor effects that would be too weak to be an actual utility power but cool enough to be fun. Emphasis on fun vs. mechanical benefit. For example, a card that increases your move by one. Maybe a card that lets you do something under 'things the rules don't cover' in the DMG, such as swinging on a chandelier, more easily. Maybe the ability to hurl your weapon, but count as melee one, at a distance of two squares (your weapon lands on the ground). The concept being to not mess up the 4E balance. I'm not being very clever here, but I bet you could get pretty clever in having fun cards that let you had fun without messing with the encounter balance.
These weaker but still fun cards could replace several of the levels in the original chart, allowing for more cards:
1st 2 cards Total:2 General, 1 Creation
6th: +1 Utility Total:2 General, 1 Utility, 1 Creation
11th: +1 Total:3 General, 1 Utility, 1 Creation
16th: +Utility Total:3 General, 2 Utility, 1 Creation
21st: +1 Total:4 General, 2 Utility, 1 Creation
26th: +1 Total:4 General, 3 Utility, 1 Creation
This way, you still have reason to enjoy cards and you want/have more of them. But, the overall effect is lower, since half your cards are not uber cards. You end up with the same number of cards at most stages but roughly half are of lower power/impact.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2009 - 9:08AM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
|
OUT-OF-THE-BOX THOUGHT
How about some "DM Rewards Cards" to use for the monsters?
Wouldn't it bring some balance to the table if the Monsters also got to use some rewards cards?
I'd love to re-roll a 1 attack roll, add to a saving throw I just rolled, gain temp hp when I become bloodied, get a bonus when a minion bloodies/drops a PC, last-chance action when reduced to 0, extra damage on a crit, bonus to initiative etc. (I'd avoid Snap-Out type cards, as auto-undoing a PCs action seems uncool.) I'd also avoid the +1 bump mechanic - I don't want to keep track of that!
Now, we certainly don't want the monsters getting an "unfair" or "added" advantage to the PCs. So, presuming we can get some rewards-cards-for-monsters-to-use . . .
The DM may put one card (per tier) in his stack for each player using rewards cards.
Think about that - if the players forgo rewards cards, the DM doesn't get any. If 3 players want to use cards, the DM gets 3 heroic/6 paragon/9 epic cards in his stack.
Some careful thought needs to be put in to what the DM cards would actually do, but the idea would be to balance (not cancel) the use of PC rewards cards. (i.e. Less powerful versions.)
Some card cuggestions:
• Spend when a monster rolls a 1 on an attack roll. Reroll the attack.
• Spend when you become bloodied; gain 2x monster level temp hp.
• Spend when a minion bloodies and enemey or reduces them to 0 hp; all minions gain +2 to hit, damage, and defenses until the end of the encounter.
• Spend when a monster is reduced to 0 hp. That monster can take a basic attack as a free action before dying.
• Spend when you roll an initiative roll less than 5 on the die. Gain +10 to that initiative roll.
• Spend when a nonminon scores a critical hit. The monster deals extra damage equal to its level.
Again, the point of this idea is to do exactly two thing:
(1) NOT to take away players' reward toys, if they enjoy using them
(2) maintain a little game balance, since reward cards boost the characters' power level
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 18, 2009 - 9:23AM
#10
|
- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
|
OUT-OF-THE-BOX THOUGHT
How about some "DM Rewards Cards" to use for the monsters?
Wouldn't it bring some balance to the table if the Monsters also got to use some rewards cards?
It would! An easy (immediate) way to turn this on would be to employ a system similar to Spycraft. In Spycraft, each player has Action Dice. These are somewhat similar to Action Points. Whenever a player enables/gains one, the DM gets a token. The token can then be spent in the same way, or even to do other things (add to an attack, add to defense, etc.). Several tokens can be combined. Spycraft GMs use these to good effect, doing things like landing that really important blow, keeping the mastermind alive another round, forcing the combat to have cool effects (explosions get bigger in radius, etc.). It works really well. As the players enable them, they see the stack of poker chips or tokens the DM has grow and they get a bit more worried.
A way this could work simply: Every time a card is enabled, the DM gets a token for each plus on the card. So, if a player uses That'll Do, the DM gets one token. Whenever a plus on a card is used, the DM gets another token. So, when the spent That'll Do card is flipped over to give a PC a +1 to a roll, the DM gets a second token. Tokens can be spent for a +1 to attack, defense, or saves. Tokens can be combined. Whether the tokens can be spent before or after a roll is debatable. (I lean towards before to keep some suspense). One important rule would be that the tokens are gained after the PC's use of the card is completed. This prevents the card being canceled.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
|
|
|
