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Switch to Forum Live View Any word from Chris Tulach???
3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2009 - 5:14PM #121
Keithric
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Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 5,147

Dec 17, 2009 -- 4:49PM, WotC_Tulach wrote:


After having a discussion with our update crew here this afternoon, I've released the following blog post on the LFR groups site regarding an interim update policy for LFR.



Looks good. Thanks!

Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2009 - 5:26PM #122
22_Over_7
Date Joined: Feb 1, 2008
Posts: 3,471

Dec 17, 2009 -- 1:43PM, Elder_basilisk wrote:

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that people should point-blank ignore the rules. But I expect that most players who took reasonable actions will probably be grandfathered in, even those who took unreasonable actions won't be caught or punished, and I hope that the LFR powers that be will eventually do right by those who put severely effected characters into retirement until it's all over. But those who suck it up and continue to play the characters in the interim; I'll be surprised if they get the resources they spend sucking it up returned to them. Thus it is quite rational to determine that, if you are not willing to ignore the rules, you should not play any characters severely impacted by the recent rounds of errata.


Probably the most rational thing said in this thread.

EDIT: Until Chris released the interim rules, that is.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2009 - 5:29PM #123
WolfStar76
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Thanks for the update, Chris!
WolfStar76
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2009 - 5:33PM #124
amysrevenge
  • Fool of Win
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 657
Well done!

Frankly, I suspect that explicitly relying on the honour system will do better than a huge list of rules covering every case...
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2009 - 5:53PM #125
kilpatds
Date Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 4,967
I haven't had a chance to even read them yet, but thank you for getting something out there, no matter what it says.

(And having read it, looks good.  Again, thanks)
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus

Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2009 - 7:34PM #126
Joe_Shill
Date Joined: Mar 28, 2009
Posts: 273

Dec 17, 2009 -- 2:40PM, Dragon9 wrote:

Dec 17, 2009 -- 10:41AM, Joe_Shill wrote:

The implication of cheating and bad sportsmanship was made.  

Neither are true, and the assertion was repugnant.




Actually what you are boasting about doing does fall under the RPGA guidelines for cheating, no matter how repugnant or untrue you may think such assertions are.  Trying to hide behind righteous indignation, stating that the rules don't say you can't do this or any other contrivances such as poor customer service, etc. doesn't change this fact.

Personally, I don't think anyone here cares enough to pay it much attention.  We all know some people have been hit hard by the updates and nothing is forthcoming soon it seems.  I doubt anyone is going to bat an eye.  All Wolfstar was trying to say is that folks should watch themselves in regards to publicly declaring such things because if someone had a mind to they could report you for cheating.




And now that the guidlines are posted, they pretty much follow what I stated that I was planning on doing.  (Bought items refunded, feats and powers freely retrainable - including affected feat chains, free Transfer Enchantments, etc, with honor system to cover the rest)

So, the "cheating" that you characterized is now policy, and thus no longer cheating.

Let's all go back to enjoying the game.

"At Gencon 2010, WOTC will announce a new edition of Dungeons & Dragons." - crm(1/2010)
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 17, 2009 - 10:53PM #127
Elder_basilisk
Date Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Posts: 2,524
To the powers that be (but mostly Chris Tulach), thank you for providing what seems to me to be a fair and reasonable set of rules for handling errated items.
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 18, 2009 - 12:32AM #128
Crodocile
Date Joined: Nov 15, 2004
Posts: 818
Cool.  Thanks!
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 18, 2009 - 10:09PM #129
Tosta_Dojen
Date Joined: Aug 14, 2006
Posts: 94

Dec 17, 2009 -- 1:12PM, Wavester wrote:

Dec 17, 2009 -- 12:33PM, Dakhran wrote:

Dec 17, 2009 -- 11:43AM, Wavester wrote:

People need to calm down and stop acting like somebody came into their house and turned their PS3 into an Atari or their 55 inch widescreen into an old wooden box tv with no remote. It's a game.




Okay, delurking to address this condescending statement...

Sure it's a game.  A game that we invest time and money into.  A game that for many of us represents the only time we can have a social gathering with friends outside of work and family obligations.  And when rules changes make your perfectly valid, non-cheesy character suddenly illegal to play in any LFR game, you can no longer play in any official LFR group with your friends.  Many of our group's players drive for over an hour each way just to show up for a game, which would be less likely if they knew they couldn't even join in the fun.

It's less like someone turned your widescreen/PS3 into an Atari on B&W TV, and more that they stole the whole entertainment system, then locked you in your house all weekend long.

I'm still waiting patiently for clarification on the LFR impact of the rules updates myself, but the condescending "chill, it's just a game" attitude I find to be rather offensive.




Lots of people spend lots of  time and money.
Lots of people have this as one of their only or at least favorite social gatherings
Lots of people drive an hour or more to game

I'm all those things myself. I actually have a character affected by some of the changes now and in the past. Didn't bug me. It's a game and they'll work themselves out eventually.

I highly doubt people are driving hours with entire groups of illegal characters and groups are locking them out for it. Even if this is so, even if things are just so messed up everybody is just illegal and cannot play, then play something else. I'll take Settlers of Catan while doing bad Python quotes for $600 Alex. The point is to play and have fun. If things are a little out of whack right now then shift gears until things sort out.

Call it condescending or whatever but if errata to a game has you that worked up then ya you need to work something out.

If having fun with friends is totally ruined because of errata to a game then ya you need to work that out.

I don't think it is looking down on anybody but more of choosing not to be that emotionally tied up with a game/hobby. I refuse to let something that is entertainment have that much control over me. Nor do I accept others who have allowed it to be that for them to dictate to me or others what is and is not fair or fun.

Now I don't expect this to change anybodys opinion. I only posted because I saw a friend unfairly attacked imo. Nothing in the rules of the world state that people cannot find me offensive, condescending, or overly and unfairly tall (the bald part most will agree is totally fair and I justly deserve it).

Dave C




Wow, really Dave?  People raise complaints about the handling of rather important issues and this is how you react to that?  I mean, really?

I've never been to one of your shows, but now I'm pretty sure I never want to.  What if, God forbid, I felt it necessary to complain to you about something I found to be unacceptable?  From what you've written here, you'd apparently berate me for being too emotionally tied up in a game, and tell me to go work something out myself.

It's entirely possible for something of relative unimportance, like a game, to be handled in a way that is unacceptable and that needs to be corrected.  It's perfectly legitimate to complain to the people in charge so that they can take corrective action.  It doesn't seem like you comprehend this.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2009 - 12:09AM #130
Alphastream1
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Dec 18, 2009 -- 10:09PM, Tosta_Dojen wrote:


I've never been to one of your shows, but now I'm pretty sure I never want to. 



Dave's a good guy. A ton of people will tell you that. He can also get a bit cantankerous. Dealing with hundreds of judges and players (and their 'requests') day in and day out causes his "kid gloves" to slip off from time to time. Also, I hear he retrained diplomacy into intimidate. Still, he is a good guy who really cares about the game and who runs great shows. He'll probably buy you a beer if you show up at a con and tell him you were offended by something he posted.

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