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Maesto wrote:

Orb of Force is a decent catchall, especially if you combine it with something like guided shot. However, at the higher levels, instead of doing some 50 damage a round, it's usually better to apply some controlling mechanism to the bad guys to mitigate effects to the party. Stopping the party from taking 100 damage, or setting up your fighter to do 200 damage is generally more effective than plinking away for 50 points. Especially in combats against multiple enemies, something like Solid Fog to keep the bad guys coming on one by one is usually a better option. Of course, incorporeals are always annoying... but wall of fire does nice thing to them, half of the time ;-)

I was not saying it was the best option in every situation .. only that it has staying power as a spell where other lower-level damage spells fall off in utility. Sometimes doing 50 damage after the fighter just dealt a few hunderd IS the best option.

I would never recoomend NOT have decent battfield control - just have a means of doing some damage to opponents.

Maesto wrote:

Orb of Force is a decent catchall, especially if you combine it with something like guided shot. However, at the higher levels, instead of doing some 50 damage a round, it's usually better to apply some controlling mechanism to the bad guys to mitigate effects to the party. Stopping the party from taking 100 damage, or setting up your fighter to do 200 damage is generally more effective than plinking away for 50 points. Especially in combats against multiple enemies, something like Solid Fog to keep the bad guys coming on one by one is usually a better option. Of course, incorporeals are always annoying... but wall of fire does nice thing to them, half of the time ;-)

However, as others have said, sometimes empowered orb of force still is the best option. So long as it does something nothing else in your spell selection does, it's a nice option to have.

It's a pretty good "ready to disrupt casting" spell, for example, especially against demons using spell-like abilities (where readied silence doesn't work and a lot of other spells run into SR/resistance problems). It's also good for just reliable damage when you want to finish off a badly injured enemy (denying them actions altogether is generally better than putting them in a solid fog). Its Medium range is useful, too, for encounters in fairly open terrain. And then there are the tables where you don't have a fighter doing 200 damage/round - where your melee-damage-dealer is a melee rogue without deathstrike bracers, for example, and the encounter is against golems.

I think the last time Azrien used empowered orbs of force was to finish off an APL 14 golem encounter - there were paired golems, the rest of the party had dropped the other one, but both would heal at the start of the round unless both were down. Empowered orb of force x2 (using belt of battle) dropped the second golem and ended the encounter. The time before that was before she got Moonbow, when Empowered Orb of Force was her catchall Medium range spell - she fought the first two encounters in that mod from 200ft away, because they were all grapplemonsters with big reach, and she didn't want to waste actions teleporting out of grapples. I probably should have used empowered orb of force as my ready-to-stop-casting in another recent mod, instead of spiritwall, but I didn't think of it (it was against a demon using spell-likes, and the orb would've hampered the party less than spiritwall did).

It's a nice spell. It's not a must-have, but my L15 sorcerer has gotten quite a lot of good use out of it. Just don't spam it every round for the sake of doing some damage, and you should be okay.

copperwyrmling wrote:

However, as others have said, sometimes empowered orb of force still is the best option. So long as it does something nothing else in your spell selection does, it's a nice option to have.

Sure - I know that you've gotten good use out of it, and I know others who have as well (myself included). I did say it's a decent catchall I have seen it's use fall off recently though, probably mostly in the level 14+ region.

I'm trying to remember when the last time I used a L4 orb spell for damage was, though (with my archmage). I've used maximised lesser orbs a few times just for the "we want 40 damage now against unbeatable SR", but I can't actually remember preparing an orb spell since losing elemental mastery. Nor can I remember the last time I prepared an orb of force, let alone cast one.

That said, you can enjoy my shame from a relatively recent module. I had an open 8th level slot and the feat Alacritous Cogitation. Whatever the hell we were fighting was fairly atypical of it's sort; it had 24 hitdice and saves that started at +23 or something silly (they'd laughed at the DC 31 saves I'd thrown at them, and I'd targetted their weak save). The things had perfect flight, fast healing, a truckload of immunities, and were consistently doing 50 damage a round to the entire party (which we were largely unable to mitigate), and we were entirely greater invisible at the time (and furthermore, they were stuck in a freezing fog). The only weakness they had was cold vulnerability, and the best option I could come up with was to alacritously cogitate a Polar Ray and zap him for 19d6 (effectively empowered) (I had a way of penetrating their SR). Thinking back, I should've alacritously cogitated for an empowered orb of cold for 15d6 empowered twice, but it would've ended up being much of a muchness (18% or so edge on the 15d6x2.25 over 19d6*1.5).

Anyway, apologies for derailing the thread ;-) Back on topic, I agree with the suggestion of Empower - metamagics are the playthings of sorcerors; make the most of them. I haven't had experience with Rapid Metamagic yet (I'm still working towards it with my sorceror), but a couple of friends who play sorcerors highly recommend it (and quicken spell at L12). Spellwise, it looks like you've got most of the bases covered already. You've got long range and area damage (fireball), high output damage (empowered scorching ray, or you'll get to that soon), a catch-all "You take damage" with empowered magic missile, and an anti-SR spell with the lesser orb (also empowerable. Seeing a trend here?). I'd suggest that Burning Hands has probably outlived it's usefulness now, however. If you've only just hit level 8, you have a spell swap available, and I'd look at changing Burning Hands for something else. Given that you have Ray of Enfeeblement, Lesser Orb of Sound and Scorching Ray, I'd suggest looking at Guided Shot to increase your chances of hitting with those spells.

Looking towards the next couple of levels, I'd decide if you want to take a teleportation type spell, such as Dimension Door or Teleport. If you want dimdoor, I'd advise taking it at 9th, rather than orb of force or greater invisibility. Being able to shuttle party members around is incredibly powerful. At 10th level, I'd consider using the sorceror spellswap to retrain Mage Armour into something else, too.

Otherwise, go the Perrender ;-)

my 2c,
Jolyon