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4 years ago ::
Aug 02, 2009 - 7:19PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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I hope that the next CCG clarifies that the character builder should really only be considered a "rules resource" for the text of powers, since those are the only thing that are printed in full on your character sheet.
+1. The rules source section needs an overhaul in general for clarification.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Aug 02, 2009 - 7:59PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2009
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I'm not particularly fond of the idea of letting people hoard retrains. It if its too big of a problem for you, you don't have to follow the rules. You can simply swap out what you don't like. Chances are no-one will notice unless you change your class feature, which you're allowed to do once at any rate.
Considering the rules can't be enforced I personally consider them largely optional (although I do chose to follow them. I'm not going to have a fit if I find out others aren't following them  ). The main idea is to have fun. As someone with a gimped character, I definitely understand the impact it can have on your enjoyment and the desire to change it.
How about another negative term: "cheat". Because, anyone that tries to save up retrains and use them all at once is cheating. Simple fact. I have a primal character, so I understand some of the frustration. My solution is what I recommend to anyone else in this situation.
Enjoy the character you are playing now. Make any decisions as if a splat book will never come out. And, when one does, use the one time class feature retrain allowed in LFR if you really think you need to. Then, enjoy the character you are playing at that time.
-SYB
Let's not bring cheating into this. I (the OP) never asked about what I could get away with, I stated what I had been told and asked the group what they thought was the correct way to play. If I wasn't interested in playing by the rules, I wouldn't have asked about them. I'm sorry if discussion about why the rules should be what they are caused people to think I was justifying noncompliance.
I think I understand the position taken by this group on my first question, although I had hoped senior/official comments would be given before I decided whether or not to submit this to CS, but nobody has addressed my other questions (can level-up occur anytime after finishing the mod which awarded you the level-up XP and starting to play the next mod with that character, and can players elect "no change" retrains to get access to the one time 2 feat / 2 power at one level retrain?).
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4 years ago ::
Aug 02, 2009 - 8:07PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2009
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If you could save your retrains, you could wait to use them until you got to 11th or 21st level and retrain all of your old feats to the now available paragon or epic feats. That doesn't seem right at all.
I believe CB requires (at least for powers) that retrains be valid for the level you are using it. That is, you cannot switch Level 3 encounter powers with a Level 2 retrain. I don't know if similar logic is in place for feats , but I would be satisfied with not allowing a Level 2 retrain to swap a Heroic Feat with a Paragon feat as that would not have been allowable at that level. As described, only Level 11 or higher retrains would allow swapping in a paragon feat.
I'm not looking to get around rules, but simply to "retrain" the valid choices I now have for valid choices I made before.
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4 years ago ::
Aug 03, 2009 - 1:16AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I think I understand the position taken by this group on my first question, although I had hoped senior/official comments would be given before I decided whether or not to submit this to CS, but nobody has addressed my other questions (can level-up occur anytime after finishing the mod which awarded you the level-up XP and starting to play the next mod with that character, and can players elect "no change" retrains to get access to the one time 2 feat / 2 power at one level retrain?).
1) Yes, you can do the leveling up process anytime between the end of the module you leveled in, and the beginning of the next module you play that character during.
2) I am torn on the feature retrain to the same feature, as it feels like a boondoggle to me. YMMV. I would probably allow it, I just wouldn't use it myself.
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4 years ago ::
Aug 03, 2009 - 10:23AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I am torn on the feature retrain to the same feature, as it feels like a boondoggle to me.
It strikes me as being similar to retraining a feat into the same feat, so that you can choose different feat options, something which is explicitly recommended by the rules.
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4 years ago ::
Aug 03, 2009 - 6:51PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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It strikes me as being similar to retraining a feat into the same feat, so that you can choose different feat options, something which is explicitly recommended by the rules.
I don't recall seeing that one, where is it mentioned? And which feat(s) have options?
Or do you mean something like retraining weapon expertise (heavy blades) into weapon expertise (light blades)?
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4 years ago ::
Aug 03, 2009 - 7:37PM
#17
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2004
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Arcane Familiar came to mind first.
John du Bois
Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area
Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois
Follow my presence on The Intertubes: johncdubois.wordpress.com
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4 years ago ::
Aug 04, 2009 - 12:54AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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Can level-up occur anytime after finishing the mod which awarded you the level-up XP and starting to play the next mod with that character, and can players elect "no change" retrains to get access to the one time 2 feat / 2 power at one level retrain?).
No choices are locked in until you play that character again, you can change your mind a million times between the mod you leveled up in and the next one it only counts once you start playing the next mod.
The retrain into the same thing, that is kinda hazy at the moment, there is no official call either way, lots of people feel one way or the other about it though, I think it's perfectly fine, as it locks you in to the new way and if it were a home game and a new book like divine power came out I bet that most home dm's would allow far more sweeping changes to a character to allow for new choices, maybe making them do a small quest or something that LFR can't really ask of a player.
Blah blah blah
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4 years ago ::
Aug 04, 2009 - 7:23AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Nov 10, 2003
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2) I am torn on the feature retrain to the same feature, as it feels like a boondoggle to me. YMMV. I would probably allow it, I just wouldn't use it myself.
I don't see any problem with it. It's not as if it's massively going to unbalance anything. It's there specifically so that characters can use new options from new books (it appeared in the CCG update after Martial Power came out), so why not?
As for the 'when do I level up' question, as long as the character you turn up with is legal on the day you play, what was legal when you last played is irrelevant.
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4 years ago ::
Aug 09, 2009 - 7:45PM
#20
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I like the fact that the RPGA allows for a one-time retraining of a class feat, but the problem I have is that it is still limited by your stats (which cannot be retrained by any rules I have seen.) So, if you are playing a Pursuit Avenger and you decide that the Commanding Avenger might suit you better, you are SOL unless you've stacked your stats completely backwards from your current character setup. Pursuit Avenger = WIS (Primary), DEX (Secondary), INT (Tertiary), Commanding Avenger = WIS (Primary), INT (Secondary), DEX (Tertiary). So, some builds cannot even get the class feature retrain since it would completely invalidate their character ... unless they retrain their class feature and pick the same one again. This is the *only* option for Pursuing Avengers currently, I might add....
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