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4 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2009 - 7:45AM
#511
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Fantasy in general, and especially Forgotten Realms is based on exceptions. I think at one point I could have safely said that dwarves hate all drow until that pesky Salvatore wrote a couple of books.
It is true that while the PHB explicitly points out that there are exceptions to all the general rules, there is nothing in print that I can find that states the same for lore. But it is repeatedly stated that adventurers are exceptional, different from the norm and choose their own destiny.
But the main problem with the "no exceptions" rule is that LFR is an open campaign. Many, many people who play only have a passing knowledge of FR. They may or may not recognize Kelemvor as a deity, much less know about his attitude towards undead. LFR is a social structure designed primarily to highlight D&D which happens to be set in FR. Because of that DMs and players should be a little lenient and accept non-canon characters while trying to have fun playing a game. In a home campaign I wouldn't allow half the races I see at the tables, but in LFR I play a gnoll.
If revenant warforged clerics of Kelemvor bother you so much, perhaps LFR isn't for you. LFR is a Living Campaign with all it's exceptions and compromises first and a Forgotten Realms campaign second.
Allen.
Note that the above is strictly my opinion and just my opinion.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2009 - 7:48AM
#512
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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matblack76, there is no room because the canon tells us it cannot be. If the Canon changes so that Kelemvorites are not constrained by their deity to kill all undead, then of course there will be room. But until then, they are disobeying a direct order from their deity and thus if they *do* adventure alongside one of these undead, they lose all their divine powers.
well, as others have stated, the loss of powers is not extant in 4th edition.
so any sort of discussion becomes impossible if you fail to realize or accept that a player can make a choice to play a character who goes "against the grain" and still be able to adhere to what has been written before. there are a few words for that, but i'm not going to go into them.
with no chance of actual discussion, there's no reason not to lock the thread.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2009 - 8:03AM
#513
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Fantasy in general, and especially Forgotten Realms is based on exceptions. I think at one point I could have safely said that dwarves hate all drow until that pesky Salvatore wrote a couple of books.
so, i play a dwarven cleric with an extreme hatred of duergar, as is sensible with dwarves. in fact, i'm sure it's written somewhere in the lore that dwarves hate duergar.
now, when the next creation card comes out (as hinted at by chris tulach in another thread that i don't remember off the top of my head), my bet is that it's most likely going to be a duergar card.
now, so in the future i may have to sit at a table with a duergar. and my first thought isn't going to be that i have to either play a different character or leave the table... i will play at the table with the duergar in the party, but in character i will be very skeptical, keep a very close watch on the character, and possibly even, depending if the other player is someone who i know and someone i know can handle it, openly hostile toward the duergar, until he proves himself otherwise. at that point i may even begrudgingly accept him as a good ally, and perhaps eventually even as a friend.
there's a story that infinitely more interesting than dwarf kills duergar, moves on. and in an environment that so many complain is so lacking in roleplaying and character development, things like that are a golden opportunity.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2009 - 8:54AM
#514
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
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When WotC decided that, for 4E, everything would be core, one of the things that I am certain that they considered the effect that it would have on living campaigns. They had two possibilities[a]:
[list=1] Restrict the living campaign *only* to things that appear in that campaign setting;
Allow everything in the living campaign.
Obviously, WotC chose #2. They know that there will be a times when, due to allowing everything into LFR, that they will lose people who are not willing to compromise their PC's beliefs. They are betting that the loss of that player will be more than made up by new people who are just joining a LFR campaign and don't know all of the lore from the past 20 years or so.
[a]There more possibilities, but they tend to fall in between the two above.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2009 - 9:54AM
#515
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2001
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LFR is a Living Campaign with all it's exceptions and compromises first and a Forgotten Realms campaign second.
You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
This is not purely a Living campaign problem.
This would occur in a home game if a DM that previously allowed players to take a "hate X" option suddenly also allowed X as a player option.
And then did not bother explain why the hate X folks should be adventuring with X.
If it were a Living Campaign problem, we'd have seen it before. LFR is hardly the first. We had 10 years of Living City. 8 years of Living Greyhawk. 5 years of Living Arcanis. At least a dozen other Living Campaigns of varying sorts. This is something that really didn't happen before. Because previously, the other campaigns spent the effort to TRY and integrate new options so they fit smoothly with the old existing paradigm.
Now? Not even making the attempt. "Here's new stuff, don't care if it conflicts with the old stuff."
More and more it strikes me as not some new clever way of thinking, but as sheer laziness.
[a]There more possibilities, but they tend to fall in between the two above.
Yeah, you missed "Take the time and effort to integrate new things into the campaign in a way that make some remote sense"
-karma
LFR Characters:
Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard
Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard
Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
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4 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2009 - 10:10AM
#516
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Lock is coming.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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