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4 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2009 - 12:42PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2003
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Yeah, another thanks for putting out My Realms. Good idea. Great idea, actually. I've heard a lot of interest in DMs in exploring that idea, and it's generated a lot of interest in my area in getting players involved in Living Forgotten Realms (as opposed to just regular 4th edition, or perhaps even certain 3.75 games.)
My question is, when can we expect to see level 4-7 and level 7-10 My Realms released, and will the adventures ever allow magical items of more than PC level to be selected? (PROBABLY not on that last, as I think the limit was set to encourage more play of the published adventures).
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4 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2009 - 1:58PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Jul 17, 2003
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Yeah, another thanks for putting out My Realms. Good idea. Great idea, actually. I've heard a lot of interest in DMs in exploring that idea, and it's generated a lot of interest in my area in getting players involved in Living Forgotten Realms (as opposed to just regular 4th edition, or perhaps even certain 3.75 games.)
My question is, when can we expect to see level 4-7 and level 7-10 My Realms released, and will the adventures ever allow magical items of more than PC level to be selected? (PROBABLY not on that last, as I think the limit was set to encourage more play of the published adventures).
We should have the 4-7 adventure packet out sometime before Gen Con Indy. The 7-10 adventure packet and 11-14 adventure packet will be this fall/winter.
Chris Tulach
D&D Program Manager
Wizards of the Coast
http://community.wizards.com/wotc_tulach
http://twitter.com/christulach
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4 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2009 - 3:02PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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We should have the 4-7 adventure packet out sometime before Gen Con Indy. The 7-10 adventure packet and 11-14 adventure packet will be this fall/winter.
Not to be impudent here, but couldn't you just copy-paste a couple of different monsters in, find-replace the level numbers, and send it out the door tomorrow?
Oh, I suppose you'd need a fresh set of regional hooks too, that might be the delay...
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4 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2009 - 10:14AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2002
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One thing I'd like to suggest on the bundle...adjust it to "An item of up to one level higher than the PC's level at the start of the adventure from a Player's..."
The rules assume that most levels a PC is going to get an item of at least this level (and up to level +4). Items of the characters level and lower are what gold is for. Items that count against their "found items" should at least be somewhat better than what they can normally afford. Alternatively, keep it as written, but do not count it as a "found item". Even a character kept and sold one after every My Realms adventure, the gold gained would be trivial.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2009 - 10:20AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2002
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Not to be impudent here, but couldn't you just copy-paste a couple of different monsters in, find-replace the level numbers, and send it out the door tomorrow?
Oh, I suppose you'd need a fresh set of regional hooks too, that might be the delay...
Or ideally, it might just be time to get feedback on the first one to see if there are changes or improvements they need to make to the process before they roll the next one out.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2009 - 12:07AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2006
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I really can't help but see a problem with the "choose an item of the PC's level or lower" when baseline D&D assumes PCs find items of higher level, and the typical LFR adventure can give awards 4-5 levels higher than the PC receiving it (though the PC can't use until it's 4 levels higher or less). Wouldn't that be a significant problem with running MYREalms campaigns over time, or even just in concert with LFR modules? When PCs need +2 items, they can only get +1s, etc. A level 1 PC in a MYREalms can choose a Magic Weapon +1. A level 1 PC in any other LFR can choose something like a Lightning or Frost Longsword at the same experience level. If we assume a PC takes a magic item at every available level, the spread might looks like this: LFR PC: Lv 5, Lv 5, Lv 6, Lv 4 MYRE PC: Lv 1, Lv 2, Lv 3, Lv 4 If a player studies adventures and chooses ones which give good items and/or holds off on choosing items until they are level 3-4 (face it, many if not most players do this), then it might be: LFR PC: Lv 5, Lv 6, Lv 7, Lv 8 MYRE PC: Lv 3, Lv 4, Lv 4, Lv 4 A level 4 PC who participates with all LFR modules will likely have a couple of +2 magic items. A level 4 PC who participates with all MYRE modules will have exactly zero +2 items. Even when the expansion comes and they get to level 5, they still have zero possibility for +2 items unless they somehow manage to buy one (with all their money). I think the best way to get both Players and GMs on board with this is to allow the DM to select treasure awards. It can follow a formula like the DMG, but a bit more specific. For example:
One level 7 item (high level only)
One level 6 item
One level 5 item (high level only)
One level 3 or 4 item
One level 2 or 3 item
Up to two ritual scrolls/books
Gold and Potion
More Gold
Note: The DM should choose one magic weapon, one magic armor, one magic neck slot item and one wondrous item. Optionally can also include a head/hand/waist/arm/feet slot item.[/quote]
Aside from the creativity aspect, having essentially "useless" item rewards will not encourage as many people to participate, nor do much for their characters' life expectancies.
I can understand if the main reason for introducing these to be as "filler" between the "real" LFR adventures, but having magic items with a decent level spread wouldn't tremendously impact any balance because the PCs are still limited to 1 item per level. As time goes on, the official adventures will have more and varied treasure bundles, and I'm pretty sure there isn't all that much a chance of making overpowered characters any more than those who pick and choose LFR adventures based on treasure. (Honestly any power imbalances come mostly from the PCs' non-item choices, like powers and feats).
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19670890/Keep_on_the_Shadowfell_Character_Errata
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4 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2009 - 2:27AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Wouldn't that be a significant problem with running MYREalms campaigns over time, or even just in concert with LFR modules? When PCs need +2 items, they can only get +1s, etc.[/quote]
Not if the MYRE adventures are used properly.
They aren't designed to run a whole campaign from, really, but to add side-quests, personalized adventures, and/or minor follow-up adventures to help give a bit more localized feel for the players.
Some uses for MYRE adventures: Cover the travels of the PCs between regular LFR modules; deepen information that the players found interesting from a previous adventure/adventure sequence (more low-level adventures working for Crafty Kobold Salvage Company, for example); help a PC looking for an item of his level that is not available in a published adventure (using a found item slot is cheaper than buying it, after all); letting the PCs explore an area that isn't covered by any of the published modules; the possibilities are endless.
But the MYRE adventures will probably not be where the PCs get most of their found items from, honestly. If you are going to be using them to fill out a home-style LFR campaign, then you should be getting that request list from your players, and working in an occasional LFR module that has bundles that include some of those items, or something similar.
The MYRE rewards also help provide for certain existing inadequacies in the published LFR modules, which is that most of them do not include things like an abundance of implements, especially PHB2 implements. Again, that could let a first level Invoker, for example, a chance to get himself a magic implement long before he could afford one. Win-win, IMO.
And sure, I wouldn't mind if the bundle reward, both for MYRE and the other adventures that use a similar award, were to be modified to Level +1 or +2. It would still be fairly balanced against expectations and, from what I hear, reality of the LFR campaign, so it wouldn't be a bad change if it occurred.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2009 - 8:52AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I really can't help but see a problem with the "choose an item of the PC's level or lower" when baseline D&D assumes PCs find items of higher level, and the typical LFR adventure can give awards 4-5 levels higher than the PC receiving it (though the PC can't use until it's 4 levels higher or less).
There's a thin line between "good enough" and "too good", and with an adventure you can play over and over again, you want to err on the side of caution. The MyRealms adventures are intended as filler between normal campaign adventures, not to be a campaign by itself--having PCs be encouraged to play other adventures instead of just MyRealms adventures isn't a bug, it's a feature.
Or, to put it another way, the campaign assumes that players are only taking found magic items every third adventure, taking the "more gold" option two out of three times, so if MyRealms adventures always fall into that category, that's only a problem if you're not running anything but MyRealms adventures, which isn't their intended use.
But, sure, I wouldn't mind some tweaks. For one thing, I'd prefer that the item levels be fixed (any PH item of less than 2nd/4th level, for example). I wouldn't mind seeing that expanded slightly (say, any PH item of less than 3rd/5th level or 4th/6th level), but that's more because these "pick any item" selections are needed as a patch for the unavailability of items that need to be widely available (e.g., implements) than because I think the rewards are inherently inadequate.
When open-ended options are available, I'd also like to see an option to upgrade an item to a higher level than you normally can (e.g., "You can upgrade a magic item you possess to a higher level version of the item, so long as the level of the upgraded version is no greater than your level +2. Taking this upgrade uses one of your found magic item slots.").
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4 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2009 - 2:27AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2006
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I understood the idea that they are "filler" perhaps, but I guess I also think that is not the best approach to take. EDIT: I meant more along the lines of 3-4 adventures of MYREalms in a row perhaps, rather than a full campaign. Something like the ADAP series in the tower. As to not derail the thread, my more full response as to why I think it isn't a great idea to keep that particular item level limit is in this sblock. Spoiler:
Show
A DM will make up a whole adventure, being almost the same as a "real" RPGA module in most respects -- except the DM just put a lot of time in making it according to a formula, and there are not the same (or even similar) rewards for the PCs no matter what the content of the adventure.
I also understand that there were never much in the way of implements and especially new ones like totems -- but there are honestly not that many adventures that you couldn't have someone go through the files and "update" them (being a "serious issue deserving of update," I feel) to add in a new bundle. Half get arcane implements, half get primal implements. There have been bundle changes after the fact already. EDIT: And with the new system of not even tracking which bundles were chosen, adding new ones and potentially disrupting the letter system wouldn't make a difference at all.
For the idea of "filling gaps" of item availability with the MYREalms, I believe that just an item of your level is not going far enough. If the purpose was truly to reduce a disparity between those classes who were supported early and things like shamans and druids who need totems, I feel that an item of your level is not nearly enough to bridge the disparity. It still doesn't change the fact that every other class still has Level +4 items perfectly usable for themselves. You've still left them as "afterthoughts."
I also can't see being able to sell the idea to most players at all, let alone a table-full.
True Anecdote: A player was telling me about what he'd read of the MYREalms program. He was very excited about it, about how the DM can make his own LFR adventures so he (as a player of LFR) wouldn't have to replay the same ones every time he wanted to try a new character.
Then he came to "But the stupid thing is..." -- and yes, he was talking about the treasure selection. He never even mentioned the item level issue at all; the chief complaint was, "... and then you just get 'Here, pick an item out of the books' no matter what happened."
Is it a feature to say, "Hey guys, let's play this adventure I wrote. It involves your traveling from one town to the next, and finding 50gp or a potion." Could you say that more than once before the players say "Can't we just skip it?"
If you say, "But, Bob needs a magic totem for his Shaman, and this is the only way he will find any until leveling to 8!" -- will that do more than make everyone question why there can't just be implements inserted into previously written adventures? Will Bob not still question, "Why am I the only one with a +1 implement? I can't hit things like I'm supposed to!"
I don't think the RPGA should be particularly worried about "competing" with themselves. Their in-house adventures are still professionally made, and run at gaming conventions where people can interact with new people, and are the most talked about because hundreds or thousands of people can play them, and they have the "living" aspect from those session questions. So, is it really necessary though to have such strict limitations? There are very few "broken" items in the PHB1 and PHB2 as near as I can tell, and it wouldn't particularly change much to get them sooner rather than later (nothing is actually banned). Or is this something like a beta test still?
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19670890/Keep_on_the_Shadowfell_Character_Errata
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4 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2009 - 5:33AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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The "any item of your level or lower" is nothing new. Several adventures offer this option in addition to bundles. As ohers have said, MYRE adventures were never meant to be an entire LFR campaign in and of themselves. Personally, I think allowing your choice of any item higher than your level is too good. Allowing it only to your level or lower is a nice balance to being able to choose anything. YMMV. It is open to less abuse than allowing DMs to choose item bundles. Not sayign every DM would do it, but there are those who would do it or cave in to the players where every one of them goes "But I really want this item, can't we just 'officially' count that as the level 7 bundle for this mod?"
In short, giving up the possibility of a higher level item in exchange for being able to select from a wide array of items is a fair trade.
As for the previous adventure issue. Published mods do not get updated unless there's a maor problem with them. Thelack of newer implements in old mods isnt an issue big enough to warrant goign back and editing them. It is rare that a mod gets edited and replublished. Why go back and edit the old ones when you have new ones coming out?
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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