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I wasn't sure where to post this but here we go.

After confusion about the events in a skill challenge in a game, where I felt like a Success had been turned into a failure, the DM explained his actions by making a comparison to Indiana Jones. The DM felt his actions were justified because each time Indiana got a success he was confounded by a failure but I see a different thing, I see a great example of how to incorporate failures into a skill challenge.

Consider the opening sequence of Raiders of the Lost Ark:

At the entrance to the "Dungeon" Jones stops and collects some dirt, he knows he needs to match the idol's weight at the end to be able to get out safely. Then they go into the "dungeon" and the skill challenge proper has started.

They come to the first obstacle the spiders, and they get a Success on a Nature check to deal with them without starting a "fight". (1 Success)

Then they get a success on a Dungeoneering or Perception check to recognise the light as the trigger to a trap. (2 Successes)

The DM then calls for Acrobatics or Athletics checks to get past safely. This time they get a fail. (2 Successes, 1 Failure) The "trap" is sprung and they loose a healing surge.

Then they come to the pit and they make a Thievery check to use the Whip and get a bonus to the Athletics check to get across. Alas they still get a failure. (2 Successes, 2 Failures) They loose another healing surge.

Then they come to the poison Dart trap, they make a Perception test, then a Thievery check and finally an Acrobatics check so Indy can weave his way through the trap.(5 Successes, 2 Failures)

Now its time for the last skill check.. Thievery to get the weight right. Indy fails!. The skill challenge is failed.

Indy still has the loot, but now the temple is falling apart and the stakes are raised. His failed skill challenge has lead to a new complication, which ultimately takes the shape of a new skill challenge.

This time Indy runs out of the "dungeon" and only gets 2 failures (when he fails to jump the pit, and when he is climbing out of it), and he makes it out safely.

Sadly for Indy the DM, then reveals the next element of the plot and Beloch appears with the natives to take the Idol.

In watching it as an example of a skill challenge you can see the DM being able to describe the progress and each thing that happens, and each thing is providing clear opportunities to use skills, and how failure in the challenge has consequences but doesn't prohibit progress through the challenge. You can see the same things later on, such as in the "truck chase" as Indy first catches the convoy then slowly deals with each of the obstacles. A few fights are even thrown into the middle of the challenge. The "Find the Basket" chase when Marian is in the basket (this one ends in failure) and so on. The Indy movies do a good job of showing how a failed challenge shouldn't stop progress either - they are just a means to another development and more excitement.I know its not easy to write a skill challenge this way, or even to run them like that, but it is something to keep in mind.

Yes I know (wrt the "very new"), and (except the first of the "Social Challenges" articles) I recomend the Mearl's articles as well.

But this was something I thought of that people might be able to grasp a number of ideas from that I've seen Designers talk about a number of times but not really explain well so far. (I know I didn't explain it well either, but hopefully I explained it well enough that you can put the dvd in and watch the first 15 minutes of the movie and go "oh yeah I get it")

It might need a shift in how LFR is expecting skill challenges to be organised and presented but hey... as you said we are still learning how to write (and run) them well.

Actually I have 2/3rds of a proposal done, its the skill challenge that's holding me up atm (combined with other reality factors).

But listening to the current podcast there is a lot about skill challenges in it, and the following snippit leapt out at me:

"..to make that fun. To make that compelling. You have to have the interesting narative part of it."

Its something Mearls said, specifically with regards to options for negating failures, but also with other words about how to handle skill challenges in general, and failures in particular.