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Switch to Forum Live View LFR stance on Rod Reaving/Corruption
4 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2009 - 11:37AM #151
MwaO
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 1,343

JamesMaissen wrote:

I don't think anyone has read 'place' and 'transfer' as keywords without first seeing this combo and deciding that they didn't like it.


I don't think anyone should have read 'place' or 'transfer' as a keyword.

Keywords are a specific 4e term unique to powers...which are also called out.

That doesn't mean the combo works, though.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2009 - 1:12PM #152
Keithric
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Basically, using DME to add, remove, or alter the positioning of enemies such that they will be a reasonable challenge for the PCs is a good thing. For example, I can think of multiple encounters that are basically a ton of minions all within a 5 spread of at least 1 other minion. You might DME it so that there are less minions and more normal creatures, and/or make the minions show up in waves so they're not all there at the very start of the combat, or they come in from different directions, etc.
Keith Richmond
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2009 - 5:14PM #153
Alphastream1
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bgibbons wrote:

Bah. Semantics.

The difference between using DME to say "Minions in this adventure have a special property that makes them immune to being killed by a Rod of Reaving/Corruption combo" and saying "Regardless of what the rules may or may not say, the Rod of Reaving/Corruption combo doesn't work at my table" is so slight as to be irrelevant.

Considering that the latter is more honest than the former, I'd prefer that answer from a DM.


As the other posters said, my point is that you can't do either of the above. You can use DME to alter the adventure, adding more monsters, swapping minions, spacing them out, pacing their arrival. All legit good DM stuff that follows the RPGA rules.

I used the rod combo today after asking. The table agreed with using it so as to shorten the fight. Went fine, no issues. The fight still went on for another 1.5 hours and, if anything, the rods focused the combat on what mattered.

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2009 - 4:09PM #154
Alphastream1
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Just wanted to post to let everyone know that we were both right! As written it did work to allow infinite minion clearing. And, WotC did agree that it needed fixing!

Let's all walk hand-in-hand into the sunset! Cool

Well, I mean, I would walk hand-in-hand, if I weren't holding these two rods...
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 18, 2009 - 1:18AM #155
Madfox11
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Date Joined: Dec 2, 2005
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Wouldn't the minions do the rejoicing now they have become immune to rods of reaving property? Wink
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 19, 2009 - 8:44AM #156
Alphastream1
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I think it may have been an effect of the spellplague. Smile

As for their rejoicing, between Hexblast (blast 5, curse, then attack), Rods of Quickcurse (curse anything as free action), plus Cursegrind and Cursebite (both attack anything cursed within burst 20), the chances that they will enjoy the changes for long are slim.

In reality, the two-rod combo is generally an effective strategy before paragon. After that, the lure of damage through better rods (Vicious, Darkspiral, etc.) is generally hard to resist and more effective than moving your curse around. If you really need to curse something, you can use Quickcurse or other possibilities (feats, paragon path features, etc.). Not damaging the minions becomes just fine, as you probably were going to take them out via another action anyway. Reaving, interestingly, is still a strong choice. You gain a pretty dependable way of boosting your damage with an off-hand rod. If you will be cursing 5 things in a combat, that's a pretty decent damage boost compared to other rod options. And, you can get the best of both worlds by starting with Reaving, get your curses out early, then swap to something else.

If a warlock lacks feats or other ways to gain flexibility in getting the curse out, then the Rod of Corruption can still be a good idea (especially at low levels). You can curse the minions, take them out with any other power (through you or an ally) and transfer your curse to gain more curses on minions and other foes. You just delay things and give others a chance to minion clear, but still can get the huge pact boon triggers if desired.

As they tweak minions (and I expect we will see a lot of new minions in later books that are big improvements on the PH ones), the impact of removing them becomes greater. Whether minions are there or gone in one of the first few cores, for example, has minimal impact. But, at later levels where you can use stronger minions in encounters, it becomes more important for game balance to give them at least some opportunity to take actions and require a to-hit roll. I suspect that was the idea they were going for and what they saw at R&D.

But, truly, I would have preferred a broad rule change to minions, since there are so many ways to take them out. Making them a little harder to kill across the board (rather than one warlock item) might have been better for the game.
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