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4 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2009 - 10:23AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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I have to wonder how Implement powers ever got through editing with [W] damage. It can make sense for a swordmage since their implements are weapons, but considering that the rules allow for implement attacks to be done without implements (unlike weapons), there shouldn't be implement powers with [W] damage because of this. At least not without a rule on how to adjudicate it without a weapon implement.
Imagine a Warlock implement power that did [W] damage. That would work fine with a Pact Blade/Hammer/Bow. But what about with a rod which can't be used to make a melee attack? It's just poor design. Hmm... I should go post this on the errata boards also.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2009 - 2:19PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Nov 14, 2003
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I have to wonder how Implement powers ever got through editing with [W] damage. It can make sense for a swordmage since their implements are weapons, but considering that the rules allow for implement attacks to be done without implements (unlike weapons), there shouldn't be implement powers with [W] damage because of this. At least not without a rule on how to adjudicate it without a weapon implement.
You don't need an additional rule -- you are *always* armed with "Unarmed Attack". Barring errata that adds the Weapon keyword to those swordmage powers (which would, in effect, be the same as enabling unarmed attack), that's the simplest solution. That, or issue errata that requires swordmages to have a light/heavy blade in hand to use any of their Implement powers -- after all, isn't that why they call them swordmages?
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4 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2009 - 3:24PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2008
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They also have a class ability that allows them to summon their sword if it is dropped or lost. So swordmsges will realistically never be without a sword.
This little signature is my official and insignificant protest to the (not so new now) community redesign.
The layout is lousy. The colour scheme burns the eyes. The wiki is a crippled monstrosity. So many posters have abandoned this site that some major forums are going days without posts. The 4e General Discussion board regularly has posts on the front page from two or even three days ago. This is pathetic.
Since I have to assume Wizards has a vested interest in an active community I wish someone in charge would fix this mess.
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4 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2009 - 4:04PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Good point... but what if it gets destroyed? (unlikely in an RPGA setting without sundering rules, but such a possibility could exist outside of the RPGA)
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2009 - 6:17PM
#15
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2007
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IIRC they can also reform it even after it got destroyed
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4 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2009 - 7:36PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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You are right, they can, but it takes 1 hour of meditation to do so. So not something that could happen within a combat where it got destroyed.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2009 - 7:39PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2008
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... actually, this could come up in a LFR game. Swordmage+Rustmonster.
Heh, I have this image of the swordmage forced to finish the module using the rogue's spare dagger.
This little signature is my official and insignificant protest to the (not so new now) community redesign.
The layout is lousy. The colour scheme burns the eyes. The wiki is a crippled monstrosity. So many posters have abandoned this site that some major forums are going days without posts. The 4e General Discussion board regularly has posts on the front page from two or even three days ago. This is pathetic.
Since I have to assume Wizards has a vested interest in an active community I wish someone in charge would fix this mess.
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4 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2009 - 10:13PM
#18
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I would say that a swordmage without a weapon is an unarmed swordmage and use the unarmed damage for their [W] if they are without an implement.
To put it another way: I would rule that the reason behind why an implement using class can attack without an implement is the same as why a weapon using class can attack without a weapon. Their own hands serve as weapon or implement, as needed, when no proper weapon or implement is available.
Carl
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4 years ago ::
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:54AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2001
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Except that they can't use their unarmed damage, as they cannot use unarmed attacks as implements.
You might as well let them use an execution axe that they happen to be holding. It has about the same legality for this purpose.
It's just a broken rule and needs to be errata'd.
-karma
LFR Characters:
Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard
Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard
Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
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4 years ago ::
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:59AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Karma has it right. Their fists are not legal implements for the class. Only light blades and heavy blades. In the absence of an official errata on it, it's a reasonable work around that can make everyone happy, although it is, by it's nature, a gray area fading to black.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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