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4 years ago ::
Mar 10, 2009 - 7:29PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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With monsters initiatives consistantly higher than the players (barring Dex-based classes or initiative feats), having the players start bunched up is a open license for bad DM's to unload area powers.
I don't consider myse;f a bad DM... but if the players are bunched up, for whatever reason, I will unload AoE powers on the players. I don't see why this is the mark of a bad DM. (I consider a bad DM one who can't play their monsters smart tactically)
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Mar 11, 2009 - 2:43AM
#22
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I suspect the bad DMing is referring to DMs forcing players to set up their PCs on the exact same squares noted on the map. Personally I always ask the players at the table about their typical marching order and other standard traveling tactics. It helps setting up a battle quicker and it saves discussion.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 11, 2009 - 7:24AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2007
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I suspect the bad DMing is referring to DMs forcing players to set up their PCs on the exact same squares noted on the map. Personally I always ask the players at the table about their typical marching order and other standard traveling tactics. It helps setting up a battle quicker and it saves discussion.
I was actually going to post more-or-less the exact same thing myself. However, my internet connection went out before I could so, and so I am forced to simply agree.
Using your baddies' powers to their fullest is expected. That's what they're there for. Taking away the PCs' ability to travel smartly (ie not all bunched up) is not. If they want to spread out when they think they're in hostile terrain, let 'em (assuming there is physical space to do so).
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4 years ago ::
Mar 11, 2009 - 8:36AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2003
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Then you have the guy that wants to be 10+ squares away from the party because he's, "the highest level character on the table for a reason." I love squishing him when the healers are too far away...
For the TPK part, my first ever LFR experience at Weekend in the Realms was a TPK. Had I not been experienced enough a player to know what went wrong, I probably wouldn't have played another mod. There were others players that were new, and campaign leadership should keep in mind that tough mods aren't the best way to draw in newbie players. I don't think some of those players have played again since Weekend in the Realms.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 11, 2009 - 9:49AM
#25
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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Along similar notes, there are a lot of battles in LFR mods where the PCs barely get to move into the terrain, despite obvious intention by the mod.
For example, CORE1-1, final fight. There is advantageous 'terrain' to be had... but what are the chances anyone will get to it? Extremely low! A wall of critters will descend on the party almost immediately. Then you have another row of critters... the massive size of the map is pretty funny. You might as well have the map be 5x10 for all the movement PCs will take!
It would be nice to see mods allow/facilitate greater freedom for PCs to move across the terrain. The main way to do this is likely to spread out the foes and to put them further back, so as to encourage forward movement by both parties.
(I do think that the range of 5 for healing is a sad contributor to this. There is some tactical fun to the limit, but it encourages clumping and staying put vs. exploring the battlefield).
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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4 years ago ::
Mar 11, 2009 - 11:44AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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There were others players that were new, and campaign leadership should keep in mind that tough mods aren't the best way to draw in newbie players. I don't think some of those players have played again since Weekend in the Realms.
And this assumes that the "campaign leadership" had any say whatsoever in the adventure that was run at WitR. :P
The campaign leadership is keenly aware that too-tough adventures will drive away new players. Hence we deal instead with all the "LFR is Too Easy" threads that spring up around here. :D
Shawn
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4 years ago ::
Mar 12, 2009 - 1:33AM
#27
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In regards to CORE1-1: every time I ran it the players did NOT stay in that limited area. They all moved out. It took some work for some groups, while others had a real easy time (depends a bit on the class and races present, the initiative rolls and how they moved out of the dungeon).
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4 years ago ::
Mar 12, 2009 - 6:10PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2005
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I take full responsibility for our first TPK. Yes, it was Weekend.
"Ger the Mangey", Gnoll idiot
The Pack
'nuff said :D
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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 3:35PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2001
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Well, after the debut of the Battle Ragers, TPKs should be a thing of the past - except if you have lots of Artillery/Controller monsters of course...
I played a module last time with my char, and a dwarven one handed battlerager, a dwarven mordenkrad fighter, and a laser cleric. Cleric and me (human heavy blade fighter) where level 4, the dwarves where 5 and 6 (if I remember correctly).
We played high tier and the dwarves basically owned every battle without much help. And our DM forgot to scale some encounters down because we where only 4 characters...
Ceterum censeo scrinium puniceum esse delendam
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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 4:57PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2003
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At my last table, the DM decided it would be a better challenge to take 2/3 of the first encounter and add it to the last encounter.
Needless to say, it did not go well for us.
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