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4 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2009 - 8:37PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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It's not in the CCG.
Actually it would seem to be. Under Special Character Creation Rules it says
Select a deity for your character, if applicable. See the
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide or Player’s Guide for a
list of deities available in the Realms
Now common sense says this is only for divine characters. But you can argue through RAW that if your character does worship a deity, this paragraph is applicable.
However, don't forget, people in the Realms (those that care at all about the pantheon) know that Mystra is dead - and in a world where the gods answer prayers (even if far less directly than they used to) worshipping a dead god(dess) is likely to get you almost as many odd looks as worshipping your toe jam.
Really? Gods, Mystra in particular, have a habit of returning from the dead. I'd be surprised to see major centres of worship for Mystra, however members of long-lived races worshipping a dead god certainly seems reasonable to me.
It's nearly the same as walking around our world today and telling people you're a devout Zeus worshipper. It's just not practical, and sounds a little crazy.
I personally think Zeus worshippers should be given the same level of respect as christians. Its due to a long and complex history (which I won't even begin to pretend I understand completely) that we don't extend them that courtesy. But all that is irrelevant to a world where gods are provably real to even the worst of skeptics 
If Mystra's been dead for a century, maybe this time it'll stick. :D
Yeah I don't buy it myself. Mystra has gotten a lot of attention due to her death. I won't be surprised to see the next RSE or the next edition bring Mystra back from the dead. Although I do think the Weave is gone for good. Unless we see a massive turn-around in design philosophy.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2009 - 11:51PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2007
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Ugh, people we were arguing about this when the campaign first started. There are tons of perfectly logical reasons that you should be able to worship whatever god you like living or dead...
Your a member of some obscure sect, your old enough to have been a member when the god was still around, and other such reasons.
Your not going to get any of these people to change their minds about the what it works. It's in the rules, it's idiotic and honestly you should just give up on this campaign and find something better to play, it isn't very hard trust me.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 1:16AM
#43
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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Just because clerics from dead powers have powers doesn't mean they gain that power from that dead power. That is not how it works in the Realms. Gaining power from a dead god requires specific rites, blood sacrifices, parts of the god's body, stuff like that.
In all other cases, other deities step in. Thus is how it has worked in the Realms - a specific setting with it's own rules when it comes to the gods. It's not down in the 4th ed core book, of course, but I think that is mostly because the designers would think that players would apply common sense (apparently they are wrong).
In the Realms, at least, the gods provide the divine power. They do not grant it directly, but they do grant it - the rites that grant the power are just a means to access is. Once granted, it can't be easily revoked (so a cleric/paladin can sway from the path), but of the god dies, it does not longer grant power.
Cultists work quite differently than clerics, and can easily be deluded by other powers, or use nefarious means to 'cannibalize' a dead god's power.
At least, that is how I see it. And I have a character that venerates Mystra (she doesn't believe Mystra is listening, but offers to her anyway).
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4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 1:30AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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I have a character that venerates Mystra
According to Koushiro
It's in the rules, it's idiotic and honestly you should just give up on this campaign and find something better to play, it isn't very hard trust me.
Thankfully you don't share Koushiro's opinion.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 6:11AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Actually, 4th edition FR does work like that. Re-read the posts Keith and I made in this very thread.
Clerics of dead gods do have powers. They've even been in LFR scenarios. That's because Clerics and Paladins get their powers from their rites and ceremonies, unlike Invokers that directly channel their deity's power.
Good luck finding a church of Mystra or some other dead god to perform those rites...
As has been stated, you can claim to worship a dead god for RP purposes... but you cannot mechanically have that god as your patron deity. For example, you can claim to worship Elistraee, but you would have (most likely) Selune or Correllon listed as your deity.
For RP purposes, there's no reason you can't offer up a prayer in different situations to a dead deity.
But keep in mind that Mystra has already died twice beforehand. And in general, it seems popular deities don't stay dead (look at Bane). There's lots of reasons to believe she'll come back. So not that strange, all in all...
Mystra died to explain the changes in how 4e powers work as opposed to previous edition magic. I wouldn't hold your breath on her coming back, which would mean reinstituting the weave and getting rid of the 4e power system.
Repeating yourself doesn't make it true :P. It's not in the CCG. It's only in an unofficial ruling -- and even then you're still allowed to roleplay it.
No but repeating the truth may get you to finally see it. Others have already quoted the relevant text from the CCG. Show me a list of FR deities that has [insert dead god's name here] on it and I will concede the point that you can list that deity as your patron deity.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 6:31AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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My next character will be a farmer with a pig under his arm who worships his toe jam. I'll be sure not to make him a divine-power-source class. Thanks!
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 6:33AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Ewwww...
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 8:46AM
#48
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
- Dragon Slayer
- D&DI News Guide
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2005
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My next character will be a farmer with a pig under his arm who worships his toe jam.
I'll be sure not to make him a divine-power-source class.
Thanks!
But who does the pig worship?
Wolf Star76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide  Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter
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4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 10:00AM
#49
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But who does the pig worship?
Porcus, of course!
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
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4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 2:49PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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Mystra died to explain the changes in how 4e powers work as opposed to previous edition magic. I wouldn't hold your breath on her coming back, which would mean reinstituting the weave and getting rid of the 4e power system.
I disagree, the 4e expands all campaigns not just the realsm, so i doubt that they used mystras death for ONLY this purpose, and I definately believe if mystra was to come back there would not HAVE to be any rules changes, When Wizards switched from 2nd to 3rd edition they didnt have to kill any gods to explain the reason feats were introduced, so bringing back dead gods wouldnt effect the mechanics of the game only the story of the setting.
Tho i would like to see a god or two come back (or new gods be introduced) over the course of the LFR just because there is all these epic Forgotten realsms books and stories of fallen gods, or wicked events that change fearun however wizards (or tsr even) never let us participate in these events, this is why I so much enjoyed the Tenh modules from Living greyhawk, because i got to see, and participate through my characters eyes the re-founding of a great duchy
Or the Bright sands modules wich took our 1st level characters and made them become "the slayer of Rary the traitor" and new buddy of Tenser himself.
Bringing back a dead god (or introducing a new one) through lfr modules would be an excellent way to give us players the feeling of being apart of Forgotten realsm history like these other modules did with greyhawk.
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