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4 years ago ::
Jan 31, 2009 - 1:44PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2007
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I really don't see what makes a "Living Construct" not a construct. The power doesn't say "a creature with the construct keyword" it says simply "a construct."
There's no reason to say, "living constructs count as constructs" because if we look at the noun involved here, it is still "constructs." It's like saying "these red apples are apples."
If the Reparation Apparatus said specifically that it applies to creatures with the "construct" keyword, then I would also agree that it would not work.
If you think it's broken, then don't allow it in your home play. You can change whatever you want there. If some guy is using it and sucking the fun and challenge out of the table, people will get sick and won't want to play with him.
It's not the warforged that needs modification/clarification. It's the item.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 31, 2009 - 2:10PM
#42
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"construct" is a type in the monster manual as is "living construct". The words are similar, and if this was not a game it would be different. This , however, is a game with rules, you can't use inductive reasoning but rather must use deductive reasoning.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 31, 2009 - 4:07PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2008
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If you think it's broken, then don't allow it in your home play. You can change whatever you want there. If some guy is using it and sucking the fun and challenge out of the table, people will get sick and won't want to play with him.
If you don't think it's broken, then allow it in your home play. You can change whatever you want there. Just because some player wants broken rules to work in their favor doesn't mean you have to let them.
This little signature is my official and insignificant protest to the (not so new now) community redesign.
The layout is lousy. The colour scheme burns the eyes. The wiki is a crippled monstrosity. So many posters have abandoned this site that some major forums are going days without posts. The 4e General Discussion board regularly has posts on the front page from two or even three days ago. This is pathetic.
Since I have to assume Wizards has a vested interest in an active community I wish someone in charge would fix this mess.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 31, 2009 - 8:23PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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In practice, using the Rules Compendium makes no sense. It's full of errors and it even contradicts itself in several places. So no, you can't really use the Rules Compendium as is.
Look on the bright side... Pact Boons aren't Immediate actions anymore in the Compendium. 
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Jan 31, 2009 - 9:08PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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I really don't see what makes a "Living Construct" not a construct. The power doesn't say "a creature with the construct keyword" it says simply "a construct."
There's no reason to say, "living constructs count as constructs" because if we look at the noun involved here, it is still "constructs." It's like saying "these red apples are apples."
So monstrous humanoids in 3.5 were also humanoids?
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4 years ago ::
Jan 31, 2009 - 9:18PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Come on MwaO... you know better than that. New edition, different rules, different type structures. (all monstrous humanoids from 3.5 are now humanoids in 4e... just saying... )
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Feb 01, 2009 - 12:21AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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If you don't think it's broken, then allow it in your home play. You can change whatever you want there. Just because some player wants broken rules to work in their favor doesn't mean you have to let them.
Please remember this thread is in the RPGA LFR forum. Any DM with sense will house rule this in their home game, but the LFR DM's have to run it as is according to the rules. That's the issue I'm trying to resolve.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 01, 2009 - 12:23AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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In practice, using the Rules Compendium makes no sense. It's full of errors and it even contradicts itself in several places. So no, you can't really use the Rules Compendium as is.
Sure, you might not be able to use it correctly, if there are errors and contradictions, but you have to "use" it, because it is a legal rules source. Actually, since it's updated monthly, it will usually be THE legal rules source. I'm not arguing it should be, just that it currently is. We'll have to deal with any problems that arise because of that. This (the warforged issue) is one of them.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 01, 2009 - 12:29AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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I asked him based on the synopsis I provided above because it is/was my understanding of the heart of the issue at the time I bumped into him. As I said, I've only skimmed the issue, so my apologies if I didn't get all the detail into the question.
I truly appreciate that. His answer is definately good enough for us to go with for now as a general ruling, the warforged are still constructs and as such can still benefit from the apparatus.
It is something that is over-powered and I hope they look into it in the future. I don't the warforged should be changed (at least, I think they should be constructs, just as elves are fey and dhampyr are considered vampires for things that specifically affect that origin/type/keyword.) It gives them flavor and allows for some interesting moments in game.
Simply updating the item in some fashion should be enough. Instead of a property, make it an encounter power power if you still want it to be really nice, or make it a daily if you just want it to be moderately useful. Just a suggestion.
Thanks again.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 01, 2009 - 12:30AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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I'd just note here - the only reason you should be paying to check the Compendium, at least in theory, is if you used some non-book content - the books get updated for free.
That's got to be wrong, because othewise WotC is saying that Dragon magazine is useless to LFR players unless they pay indefinitely.
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