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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 7:19PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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My primary character in LFR is a warforged and has been taking advantage of the "broketastic" nature of the Reparation Appratus for a few levels now. It looks like that time has come to an end. I figured this should be posted for all the rest of the players who are using them and for all the DM's who've groaned at them. Per the new CCG1.8, the Rules Updates and Rules Compendium are valid resources for RPGA play. (The updates become valid on the 4th Tuesday or something to that effect. The compendium seems to be valid the moment it is updated.) The current version of the warforged in the Compendium no longer has this line: Construct: You have the construct keyword, so you are considered to be a construct for effects that relate to that keyword.
This was the text giving them the construct keyword. The compendium now only lists them as "living constructs" which is a separate keyword. This is the current, and therefore, most legal version of the warforged for use in LFR. Since they no longer have the construct keyword, they no longer benefit from reparation apparatus.
If you have a valid argument against this, feel free to let me know as I've enjoyed being extra hard to kill. However, I also promised my gaming group that the moment they were given proper errata, I would follow it.
Farewell, reparation apparatus. It's been fun.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 7:28PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2007
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I was clearly wrong.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 7:41PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Why don't you actually read what the compendium updated before jumping the gun?
The compendium lists the Warforged for the Monster Manual, not Dragon Magazine. The original Monster Manual Warforged did NOT have the construct Keyword, so the compendium did NOT update it at all.
It clearly isn't the MM version - the Dragon version has intimidate as does the Compendium. MM does not. However, the Compendium version is missing the construct keyword part and the attached components.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 7:46PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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If you read the warforged entry in the Compendium, it is the Dragon version. The write-up is there, the racial power is there (the Dragon version, not the MM version), the Intimidate skill bonus is there. It also states the source as Dragon 364. Do they state somewhere what has been updated in the Compendium? Sure, on the Updates section of the products page, they give the updates for the published books. They state that those updates will be included in the compendium, but as far as I can see it doesn't mean that the compendium will not include other updates. It has been stated that Dragon will never receive official errata once it has been compiled. (Of course, they went back on this when they screwed up the Bard's healing power.) So, which is considered legal? Is the version in the Compendium current? How can we tell, since no date of update is listed? Sure, the updates in the compendium are legal and binding, but we aren't using those stats.
That seems contradictory. If the compendium stated it was only updating the Monster Manual version, I would agree with you. But it doesn't.
At this point, perhaps, we need the opinion of an official LFR rep.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 7:59PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2007
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Very well, an official response is required. At the moment it is unclear if they are updating one or the other.
Apologies for coming across as so brusque, I was merely stating that there was more to it than what met the eye.
As it stands (by RAW), Dragon Magazine Warforged are legal, Compendium ones aren't.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 8:09PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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No official response needed. The new CCG states: "The online Rules Compendium is considered an official rules source for RPGA play."
So the Compendium Warforged are very legal. So then the question is which came first? The compiled issue version or the Compendium version? Most likely the Dragon version came first, whcih would mean the compendium version is the most up to date rules source.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 8:09PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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As it stands (by RAW), Dragon Magazine Warforged are legal, Compendium ones aren't.
From my view, both are legal by RAW. The Dragon article became legal the moment the full compilation was published. The Compendium version just became legal with the release of CCG 1.8. The problem is that we have no clear guidelines as to which to use in preference over the other.
I'm actually hoping you are right, because I've been having a blast with it.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 8:14PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Preference is mandated by the CCG: "When a rule is updated, use the newest version." (page 3)
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 8:25PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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Dragon9, I'm pretty sure you are right. I'd just like a authoritative response to prevent future table arguments. Do we assume whatever version is in the Compendium is the newest?
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 8:27PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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So then the question is which came first? The compiled issue version or the Compendium version? Most likely the Dragon version came first, which would mean the compendium version is the most up to date rules source.
Since the CCG calls out rules changes as effective as of the 4th Tuesday of each month, I would tend to think that the Rules Compendium trumps almost everything--essentially, think of it as a new issue being put out each month, replacing the previous month's issue and everything else older than it.
I am curious (since I have little to no interest in a D&D Insider subscription) as to the format of the Rules Compendium. How is the information presented? By which I mean, is the information about, say, the Minotaur race sourced to Dragon Magazine, with a separate article about the Minotaur from the Monster Manual, or is it just one article with the latest information, regardless of where it came from?
-- Brian Gibbons.
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