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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 2:43PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2008
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Too bad DMs don't have the liberty to do what you're saying, then.
Well...
Yes and no. It's up in the air whether a DM can outright ban options at their table. After all, there is nothing in the rules that says a DM must sit anyone who shows up.
And even if they let you play, life can be hard for characters who don't mesh well with the world. I had someone play a Gnoll in a DALE1-2 game I ran. Let me tell you, he was not impressed when he discovered that in my games Race affects more than ability scores. It's funny how hard diplomatic skill challenges can suddenly be. There are more than a few adventures out there where I could see having semi-undead in your party could make lots of NPC interaction more... interesting than you may be looking for.
This little signature is my official and insignificant protest to the (not so new now) community redesign.
The layout is lousy. The colour scheme burns the eyes. The wiki is a crippled monstrosity. So many posters have abandoned this site that some major forums are going days without posts. The 4e General Discussion board regularly has posts on the front page from two or even three days ago. This is pathetic.
Since I have to assume Wizards has a vested interest in an active community I wish someone in charge would fix this mess.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 3:19PM
#22
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There really is no good in-game rationale for a Kelemvorite Dhampyr. They're really that rabidly anti-undead that they'd kill themselves if one found out he or she was one.
-karma
Oh? Let's say a very powerful vampire lord (on par with Strahd von Zarovich, or some FR equivalent) feeds upon a woman. She happens to be pregnant at the time, though not very far along in the pregnancy. The child inherits the vampiric bloodline from the lord due to the feeding, and the pregnancy is very difficult. Makes sense, considering the child is requiring more blood to help him grow.
The child is born, with the mother dying during childbirth. Though he is half vampire, he actually doesn't show his vampiric heritage until later in life. His mother's death haunts him, and because of the vampire that weakened his mother, he becomes a devout Kelemvorite, entering the priesthood.
At some point, his vampiric nature finally shows through. He now sees that the vampire has cursed him as well. He finds his own existence abhorrent, to be sure, but he makes a deal with Kelemvor: allow him time to track down the lord that gave him the taint of the grave and the Thirst and Hunger, and once that vampire is permanently destroyed, he will end his own life, laying the bloodline to rest forever.
How's that?
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 4:37PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2001
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There really is no good in-game rationale for a Kelemvorite Dhampyr. They're really that rabidly anti-undead that they'd kill themselves if one found out he or she was one.
Sure there is. A Kelemvor worshipping Dhampyr wouldn't kill themselves just because they found out they were a Dhampyr, nor would your run-of-the-mill Kelemvor worshipping Paladin/Cleric/Invoker/Avenger automatically want to destroy the Dhampyr (although they may not trust them). Dhampyr's are what they are because of the undead, but they're not undead themselves. If anything, Kelemvorites would probably welcome Dhampyrs, although grudgingly, to better hunt down and destroy the undead.
Now, is there an in-game rationale for Kelemvor granting his worshippers Dhampyr abilities? Absolutely not. Kelemvor's not about to hand out a craving for blood to his worshippers!   That doesn't make a lick of sense whatsoever. Kelemvor would hand out abilities which better allow his followers to destroy the Undead. You'll find THOSE Feats in the Legacy of Acererak article. But Mist Form? Blood Drain? Not a chance.
A better explanation would be to simply state that the character was always a Dhampyr, but his Dhampyr traits didn't come to the fore until recently. Done. No need at all to come up with a convoluted reason involving Kelemvor turning his worshippers into Dhampyr's for some inexplicable reason. Just as it took a while for you to manifest your Mist Form ability, so too did it take a while for you to manifest your Blood Drain ability, and leave it at that.
And personally, I'm looking forward to Dhampyr's becoming playable. I got half a mind to play a Human (Dhampyr) Paladin of Kelemvor, selecting a mix of Feats from both the Dhampyr list and the Paladin specific Feats from Legacy of Acererak, with maybe Astral Fire, Ritual Caster, and Healing Hands thrown in. That'd be pretty neat, I think.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 5:45PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2007
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Sigh.
Soon Vampires will sparkle in the sun and make us all the most popular girl at school. Oh wait, Twilight already does that.
Fanboyism rocks.
My attitude is that if you want to be a vampire, go play white-wolf, or accept some SERIOUS consequences if in a game other PCs/folk discover that you are feeding off the living. I aint breaking verisimilitude because you want to be 'awesome'
When push comes to shove, I have yet to meet a Kelemvorite that would permit a Damphyr's presence, let alone allow it to join the clergy :P
4e Lore and LFR lore NOT THE SAME. (not a personal attack, just making it VERY clear)
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4 years ago ::
Jan 27, 2009 - 5:48PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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It's up in the air whether a DM can outright ban options at their table.
It's not up in the air. The RPGA CCG says what is a legal character option or not. If a player's character is legal, you can't not allow it at a table just because you don't like the rules item in question. I think people forget that in the RPGA, infractions can happen not just to the players but to the Judges also.
And even if they let you play, life can be hard for characters who don't mesh well with the world. I had someone play a Gnoll in a DALE1-2 game I ran. Let me tell you, he was not impressed when he discovered that in my games Race affects more than ability scores. It's funny how hard diplomatic skill challenges can suddenly be. There are more than a few adventures out there where I could see having semi-undead in your party could make lots of NPC interaction more... interesting than you may be looking for.
Yay! I wish more DMs where I play would do that... If I play my Minotaur I expect NPCs to react differently than they would an elf or human. Of course, there is a fine line between adding the flavor to the chosen PC race through NPC interactions and excluding a player from playing.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2009 - 4:51AM
#26
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2007
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Yay! I wish more DMs where I play would do that... If I play my Minotaur I expect NPCs to react differently than they would an elf or human. Of course, there is a fine line between adding the flavor to the chosen PC race through NPC interactions and excluding a player from playing.
As an Orc Warlord... I often wonder why I ever bothered to train Diplomacy... 
But, what you lose in structured debate you gain in threatening and bullying... go-go magic Intimidation!
When I DM I always treat the races differently... not badly, but the NPCs react differently to the different races... as do many of the better RP players in the group.
There are Thayans who don't bat an eyelid when there is a Gnoll in the group, while the Dalesmen grab their weapons every time one makes a sudden move.
Similarly there is one Thayan character of my acquaintence who will be taking Vampiric Heritage very soon (a legacy of having a society ruled by the Undead I would imagine). While there is a Kelemvorite Cleric who's "spider sense" tingles every time he's in the same group as the Thayan... for some reason... 
As for Kelemvor "granting" Vampiric Heritage, I find that a bit of a stretch. However, if that's the way one particular Cleric or Paladin's Kelemvorite Sect wants to believe, that's fine... it's a legal character after all... but I don't see it as part of the mainstream doctrine for Kelemvor.
I find it far more likely that a Damphyr character woud turn to Kelemvor for help with controlling/removing the condition (if they believed it to be such a thing).
As has been said, Vampiric Heritage does not make your character Undead, it's much more like a curse... who better to remove a curse than a God.
On a positive note, with the introduction of Adventuring Companies, you could start one that only lets in Damphyr worshippers of Kelemvor... start your own sect! 
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4 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2009 - 4:53AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2008
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To expand what Metz said, I used to play World of Warcraft on an RP server. And there we (by 'we' I mean people who made an effort to abide by the setting) were plagued by people who didn't know the lore, didn't want to know the lore, and deliberately went out of their way to defecate on the lore from a great height. You know the type: half-demon half-lesbian vampiric long lost sons of Cloud, Arthas and Thrall with multiple prehensile appendages shaped like . They would get very arsey when it was pointed out to them that they were, to be frank, childish and taking the **** and their character concept had no place in an RP server.
So it is with all these "kewl" powers that are now appearing. Just because you *can* play a Damphyr, doesn't mean you *have* to. Especially if your character worships a deity that despises the whole concept of undeath and is expressly dedicated to the utter destruction of *anything* that is tainted by undeath, as is with Kelemvor in the Realms. Remember, you're playing in the Realms, not in generic 4e-ville. Please make an effort to abide by the commonalities of the Realms.
If people are such selfish gits that they *cannot* and *will not* abide by the basic lore of the Realms, then can I suggest that LFR is *not* for you? Try World of EroticPrehensileTentacleCraft or something instead. Or even FATAL.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2009 - 11:23AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2001
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Sure there is. A Kelemvor worshipping Dhampyr wouldn't kill themselves just because they found out they were a Dhampyr...[snip]
You truly don't know Kelemvor very well, do you?
Kelemvorites, in regards to undeath in any shape or form, are intolerant, unforgiving, and unreasonable.
I'll just leave it at that.
-karma
LFR Characters:
Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard
Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard
Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
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4 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2009 - 12:58PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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You truly don't know Kelemvor very well, do you?
Kelemvorites, in regards to undeath in any shape or form, are intolerant, unforgiving, and unreasonable.
I'll just leave it at that.
-karma
A Dhampyr isn't undead. They do not have the undead keyword. They age and die. Part of the Kelemvor hatred of undeath is that something is "cheating" death. The Dhampyr aren't and will die at their appointed time. Now, as soon as they gain powers that make them ageless or undead, a Dhampyr (or any race for that matter) will have trouble with the Kelemvorites.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 28, 2009 - 5:56PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2007
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This talk of whether or not they have the undead keyword is typical confusion of lore and mechanic. They are a creature supernaturally powerful (more so than an average human) as a result of a union with undead.
Ergo they are deriving a benefit from the interaction with undead, and the essence of undead is in them, even if they age and die. Kelemvor is not a fan of that. It's like being in LG and trying to argue why your cleric of Kelanan should be allowed to use a Bow, or an axe. Or why your Elf cleric is allowed to worship Wastri, the hopping prophet.
The Rules don't prohibit it, but the flavour does.
Vampires in LFR aren't like Vampires in twilight and modern fiction, they aren't tortured individuals who just want to love you, they are UNDEAD abominations (especially in Kelemvor's eyes). It's hard enough to get what little LFR lore there is right now. (separate rant in the 'Is LFR FR enough thread)
I prefer my LFR to have campaign integrity - what little there is.
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