|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 9:58AM
#21
|
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
|
One thing I haven't seen yet but it's probably going to come up:
Bard:
Misdirected Mark allows an ally to Mark your target. This does NOT count as one of the special Mark types that some classes have, such as Combat Challenge or Divine Challenge. As such it only imposes the standard effects of a 'generic' Mark, namely a -2 to attacks against anyone but the person who placed the Mark.
I don't think that's entirely clear cut and wouldn't rule that way for Combat Challenge - Divine Challenge is an at-will which happens to mark. Combat Challenge describes what happens whenever someone you've marked does one of two actions.
But that's a good point about Divine Challenge.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 10:07AM
#22
|
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
|
One thing I haven't seen yet but it's probably going to come up:
Bard:
Misdirected Mark allows an ally to Mark your target. This does NOT count as one of the special Mark types that some classes have, such as Combat Challenge or Divine Challenge.
I've seen this one come up (I've played a bard a couple of times, and one other local has also played one a bit). Even for classes that apply a condition that isn't even related to marking (except in a "condition plus source" sense).
This one is actually really hard for some people (including CS if the poster I have quoted asked them specifically about the Fighter) to get right. Here goes:
"Marked" is a condition (like blinded or dazed or immobilized) that gives the target a -2 to attack anyone other than the creature who has them marked. Here are more specific details regarding Paladin, Swordmage, Ranger, Warlock, and Fighter:
1) Paladin. The Paladin has an ability called Divine Challenge. This ability has, as a side effect, the quality of "marking" a foe. If a Bard ally misdirects a mark in the Paladin's favour, the Paladin is NOT considered to have issued a Divine Challenge to that foe. However, other benefits granted by a simple mark (such as the extra penalty from Enfeebling Strike) ARE granted.
2) Swordmage. The Swordmage has an ability called an Aegis. This ability has, as a side effect, the quality of "marking" a foe. If a Bard ally misdirects a mark in the Swordmage's favour, the Swordmage is NOT considered to have placed an Aegis upon that foe.
3) Ranger. The Ranger has an ability called Hunter's Quarry. Hunter's Quarry has nothing to do with the "marked" condition.
4) Warlock. The Warlock has an ability called Warlock's Curse. Warlock's Curse has nothing to do with the "marked" condition.
5) Fighter. The Fighter has an ability called Combat Challenge. The application part of this ability applies a simple mark, and no other condition. The follow-up portion of this ability requires a simple mark, and no other condition. If a Bard ally misdirects a mark in the Fighter's favour, the Fighter IS considered to have the foe marked, and the follow-up portion of the Combat Challenge ability WILL function as if the Fighter had marked the foe on his own.
A Bard is a Fighter's best friend.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 11:29AM
#23
|
Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2003
|
Here are a few of my observations over the last seven months.
1. The Grab Action does not move the target into your square (PHB pg. 290). The same goes for creatures using a Grab unless the power being used specifically says so.
2. There is no "flat-footed" condition anymore. There are no armor class penalties before your initiative turn anymore unless you have a rogue with First Strike in play (PHB pg. 267).
3. Everyone can attempt any Skill Check. Trained only means you get plus five. Every character "has" all skills except two: to diminish falling damage with Acrobatics and use detect magic with Arcana.
-------- Don (Greyson) --------
Non-smoker, White, Non-golfer, U.S. American
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 11:45AM
#24
|
Date Joined:
May 23, 2005
|
Here are a few of my observations over the last seven months.
1. The Grab Action does not move the target into your square (PHB pg. 290). The same goes for creatures using a Grab unless the power being used specifically says so.
2. There is no "flat-footed" condition anymore. There are no armor class penalties before your initiative turn anymore unless you have a rogue with First Strike in play (PHB pg. 267).
3. Everyone can attempt any Skill Check. Trained only means you get plus five. Every character "has" all skills except two: to diminish falling damage with Acrobatics and use detect magic with Arcana.
Actually in ref to your #3. There are certain functions of skills that you can only do if you are TRAINED in the skill. i.e Acrobatics - reduce falling damage or Arcana - Detect magic
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 12:00PM
#25
|
Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2003
|
Actually in ref to your #3. There are certain functions of skills that you can only do if you are TRAINED in the skill. i.e Acrobatics - reduce falling damage or Arcana - Detect magic
I noted that in post - at the end. Did you read all of my #3, or just the first part?
-------- Don (Greyson) --------
Non-smoker, White, Non-golfer, U.S. American
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 12:03PM
#26
|
Date Joined:
May 23, 2005
|
I noted that in post - at the end. Did you read all of my #3, or just the first part?
Just the 1st part.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 1:16PM
#27
|
Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2003
|
Rogue:
Level 6 at-will Utility power Chameleon is an Immediate Interrupt that triggers if an opponent moves to a square that reveals your hiding place. It cannot be used on your own turn.
To elaborate, if you move out from cover or concealment, you cannot choose to use it in plain sight.
Misuse Example in Play: Rogue sneaks up on enemy camp in the open, making a Stealth check (DM uses the option to allow sneaky characters to approach guards 'from behind' and thus remain unnoticed on the approach). Combat begins. Rogue, still in the open, attacks an enemy with Combat Advantage. He then relies on the idea that he was allowed to sneak up on enemies pre-combat to justify remaining unnoticed after stabbing one of the bad guys. He uses Chameleon to essentially hide in plain sight until the end of his next turn.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 1:33PM
#28
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
Fighter
Combat Challenge does not stop movement because it does not generate an opportunity attack. If someone shifts away from you and charges in a way that does not provoke an opportunity attack, you get a melee basic attack as an immediate interrupt which is not an OA.
To be fair, there appears to be some confusion at WOTC about this as well. Compare, for example, the text in the table for the Potent Challenge feat (PH p. 197) with the full text of the feat (PH p. 199):
PH p. 197
Show
Potent Challenge
Add Con modifier damage to target hit with opportunity attack PH p. 199
Show
Potent Challenge
Benefit: If you hit a foe with an attack granted by your Combat Challenge class feature, add your Constitution modifier to the damage roll. It would not surprise me to learn that, originally, the fighter's Combat Challenge was an opportunity attack and that Combat Superiority was supposed to work with Combat Challenge to make the fighter more sticky. But, yes, it is clear from the text that the Combat Challenge is not an opportunity attack, and that Combat Superiority hence does not work with it. Another rules mistake that I've seen, though not recently, is minions taking damage from misses (e.g., a Fighter's Reaping Strike). -- Brian Gibbons.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 3:08PM
#29
|
|
|
Had a group where some fighter thought fighter a was allowed to use his combat challenger against critter a who was marked by fighter b. or fighter 1 and fighter b where able to make OA attack against critter A cause he was marked by swordmage A. Since the critter was marked and not attacking the fighters.
Seen people add prof bonus to dmg rolls
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2009 - 3:41PM
#30
|
- Here be Dragons next 100 km
|
5) Fighter. The Fighter has an ability called Combat Challenge. The application part of this ability applies a simple mark, and no other condition. The follow-up portion of this ability requires a simple mark, and no other condition. If a Bard ally misdirects a mark in the Fighter's favour, the Fighter IS considered to have the foe marked, and the follow-up portion of the Combat Challenge ability WILL function as if the Fighter had marked the foe on his own.
Another mistake I've seen with Fighters is lumping Combat Superiority in with Combat Challenge, both for benefits and limitations. The Wisdom bonus to Opportunity Attacks granted by Combat Superiority does not apply to a Combat Challenge attack, or to any other basic attack that is not an Opportunity Attack.
On the other hand, the fighter's ability to stop an opponent's move with an OA is not limited to marked opponents, and furthermore, since it is not a part of Combat Challenge, opponents will not automatically know that the fighter can do so, even if they are marked.
One I've seen more as a query from other players than a mistake on the part of the Fighter's player:
A Fighter can mark any opponent they attack, on their turn or otherwise, whether they hit or miss, and they can have multiple opponents marked at once.
|
|
|
