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mvincent wrote:

How about  Cheetah’s Rake (PHB p.110)?:
"target is immobilized and knocked prone until the end of your next turn."

Few possibilities:
1) Immobilize lasts a turn or until fixed, whichever comes first (so goes away automatically after a turn or when the target removes immobilize by another means, such as the rogue utility I mentioned earlier) and knocked prone lasts until fixed (instant/indefinite, only fixed by a power such as standing)
2) Prone lasts for 1 turn or until fixed, whichever comes first (so, goes away automatically after a turn or when the target removes prone by another means, such as standing) - Immobilize also lasts a turn as mentioned
3) Immobilize lasts until fixed (much more difficult, may require the remove affliction ritual) and prone lasts for 1 turn (as mentioned)
4) Immobilize lasts for an instant then goes away (no duration at all) but prone lasts for 1 turn

There's also the possibility that the conditions are accidentally reversed there, and it's meant to have different wording, or even have commas or something to separate out the clauses. That one is hard to know.

I would find it very unlikely that #3 or #4 were the RAI. It feels odd to have a weaker prone effect that can go also away on its own, but it does appear to be RAW at the moment to work that way.

Keithric wrote:

Few possibilities:
1) Immobilize lasts a turn or until fixed, whichever comes first (so goes away automatically after a turn or when the target removes immobilize by another means, such as the rogue utility I mentioned earlier) and knocked prone lasts until fixed (instant/indefinite, only fixed by a power such as standing)
2) Prone lasts for 1 turn or until fixed, whichever comes first (so, goes away automatically after a turn or when the target removes prone by another means, such as standing) - Immobilize also lasts a turn as mentioned
3) Immobilize lasts until fixed (much more difficult, may require the remove affliction ritual) and prone lasts for 1 turn (as mentioned)
4) Immobilize lasts for an instant then goes away (no duration at all) but prone lasts for 1 turn

As I had mentioned in a previous post, if we apply the same logic to Cheetah Rake as some have to Phantom Chasm, then the answer should be: the target is immobilized and can never recover, but at the end of your next turn, they are no longer prone and magically appear on their feet.

Of course that's silly. But hey, that's not the side of the debate I was taking.

The answer is: After the end your next turn, the target is no longer immobilized and can stand up. Neither condition can be recovered from until tthe end of your next turn.

JamesMaissen wrote:

And second (seeing as it is being debated here for better or worse), if prone *is* a condition that is being enforced 'until the end of the next turn' wouldn't that mean that the condition would end at such a point? Rather than needing to stand up afterwards, that is the silly 'you are knocked back onto your feet' that you were discounting?

No, because the RAW states that to get up from prone you have to use an action to Stand Up. (page 292) A duration on the condition doesn't change that without an exception saying, in effect, after the duration the target is back on its feet.

Kelvadrin wrote:

For some reason 7th level characters think they can sell level 14 goggles.

For clarity: why couldn't one sell a pair of lvl. 14 goggles?