|
4 years ago ::
Feb 14, 2009 - 4:32AM
#31
|
|
|
Strawman: I was referring to posters talking about lynch mobs and guards running away, closing gates and getting the army out. So why does that make a strawman just because I react to other posts then you seem to think? Recognition: Do you have any idea how many different monsters run around in the FR that look even remotely the same? Is it a gnoll? Werewolf? Hound archon (3rd edition, I know)? Demon? Drow are black skinned elves. There are dark elves, who are generally good aligned, and who are black skinned (sometime around the Spellplague all good aligned drow were transformed by the sacrifice of their patron god). 4E: It is a good idea to remember that the FR changed drastically between 3E and 4E. Many things that were true before the Spellplague are not longer so. The presence of dozens of epic level characters is one of them  The fact that the FR is a cosmopilitan setting filled with adventurers has not changed. Pieter Sleijpen RPGA LFR Global Administrator
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Feb 14, 2009 - 5:15AM
#32
|
Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2007
|
Ultimately the PC's actions and IC statements should be primarily what NPCs react to. Depending upon the situation, you might have an opportunity or a fearful moment, but in this type of setting, strangers might be a risk but they also might be too dangerous to challenge without need. Don't derail the adventure because of the races of the character. If the players derail the adventure because of their PC actions and choices, so be it.
I could see a lot of isolated villages where the townsfolk have heard tales of drow raids elsewhere, but they never had a good description of what a drow looks like. So they may well not connect that dark skinned pointy ear creature to the name, drow. Maybe somewhere in that village is someone who 20 years ago did encounter drow so a role playing moment could be extracted from that.
Keith
Keith Hoffman
LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Feb 15, 2009 - 12:33PM
#33
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
|
I've seen an awful lot of dragonborn paladins, and almost without exception, they follow Bahamut.
Which is unfortunately out of character for the FR dragonborn...
Gomez,
who picked Tempus paladin from the get go, and now wonders if he should have made one from Sune...
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Feb 15, 2009 - 12:44PM
#34
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
|
There are dark elves, who are generally good aligned, and who are black skinned (sometime around the Spellplague all good aligned drow were transformed by the sacrifice of their patron god).
IIRC, dark elves ar not black skinned (but coppery), and they do not have white hair (but black). They are also virtually unmentioned in any FR product.
At any rate, I expect most people will consider drow to not to be trusted, unless you have a real backwater town in ana rea that didnt have to do with drow in ages. I expect that anyone in the Dalelands will know what a drow is. Most people in the most western Dalelands will now what a gnoll or hobgoblin is. A reasonable amount of people will know of fire gaints.
Then again, some people may know there are good drow, and even know a few (especially in the eastern dales).
All of this is based on some basic knowledge of the Dalelands, the monsters that have plagues the area, and various heroes that have lived there.
However, it is not something every DM has available. So while I have a fair idae on how a particular type of PC race might get treated (distrustful or not, etc), I don't think you can count one every DM to have that knowlegde ready.
In the end though, I think it is fair to assume that the average commoner looks with some reservations upon adventurers, and triple so on 'monster' races. In general, I think it should be enough to roleplay that out in social encounters, though some exceptions may exist.
Gomez
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Feb 15, 2009 - 4:05PM
#35
|
Date Joined:
May 19, 2004
|
IIRC, dark elves ar not black skinned (but coppery), and they do not have white hair (but black). They are also virtually unmentioned in any FR product.
At any rate, I expect most people will consider drow to not to be trusted, unless you have a real backwater town in ana rea that didnt have to do with drow in ages. I expect that anyone in the Dalelands will know what a drow is. Most people in the most western Dalelands will now what a gnoll or hobgoblin is. A reasonable amount of people will know of fire gaints.
Then again, some people may know there are good drow, and even know a few (especially in the eastern dales).
All of this is based on some basic knowledge of the Dalelands, the monsters that have plagues the area, and various heroes that have lived there.
However, it is not something every DM has available. So while I have a fair idae on how a particular type of PC race might get treated (distrustful or not, etc), I don't think you can count one every DM to have that knowlegde ready.
In the end though, I think it is fair to assume that the average commoner looks with some reservations upon adventurers, and triple so on 'monster' races. In general, I think it should be enough to roleplay that out in social encounters, though some exceptions may exist.
Gomez
Actually, any DM who has read the 4e Campaign setting should be able to deal with local customs and racial prejudices. If the DM hasn't read the Campaign setting, then they should treat all races equally. There is no excuse to treat specific races differently without canon reason to do so (either from the FRCS or information in the adventure).
And, be honest, most of the DMs who are treating monster races differently are doing it because they, as players, are "punishing" the players for playing what they believe to be optimized or cheesy races.
-SYB
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2009 - 12:30AM
#36
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
|
Sure there is an excuse.
It is called 'common sense'.
Of course a creature with the head of a hyena or a demonic visage will be looked upon differently than a human in a human town. How you deal with that in game is up to the individual DM, but if a PC is treated with some reservation because he looks like a slavering beast, that is perfectly within a DM's right to do, especially as long as it is mostly flavor. When it turns into penalties, you have to be more wary, but even then a situation might have it make sense.
Since most adventures can't list all the possible (future) PC races and penalties, it is up to the DM to decide on whether a race will be easily accepted or not.
I.e. in one adventure, my half-drow (who is technically a half-elf and therefor a Core race) scared the children they were to rescue. Not by anything she did - they just believed she was 'bad' (the rest of the party managed to win their trust by 'protecting' them from me). That was fun and a lot more believable than some places where everyone seems to welcome my PC and treat her like royalty (even though I can find and IC reason for them to do so).
And as a note: only bad DMs base their reactions on prejudice.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2009 - 7:34AM
#37
|
Date Joined:
May 19, 2004
|
Sure there is an excuse.
It is called 'common sense'.
Of course a creature with the head of a hyena or a demonic visage will be looked upon differently than a human in a human town. How you deal with that in game is up to the individual DM, but if a PC is treated with some reservation because he looks like a slavering beast, that is perfectly within a DM's right to do, especially as long as it is mostly flavor. When it turns into penalties, you have to be more wary, but even then a situation might have it make sense.
Since most adventures can't list all the possible (future) PC races and penalties, it is up to the DM to decide on whether a race will be easily accepted or not.
I.e. in one adventure, my half-drow (who is technically a half-elf and therefor a Core race) scared the children they were to rescue. Not by anything she did - they just believed she was 'bad' (the rest of the party managed to win their trust by 'protecting' them from me). That was fun and a lot more believable than some places where everyone seems to welcome my PC and treat her like royalty (even though I can find and IC reason for them to do so).
And as a note: only bad DMs base their reactions on prejudice.
Except "common sense" isn't actually something you can really have about intercultural relations in a well-documented fantasy setting. Either you are firmly versed in the canon or you are not. If you are firmly versed in the canon (and it isn't difficult, just read 2-4 pages of the FRCS after you choose what adventure to run), then you are following canon. If you aren't, then you have no clue what the cultural beliefs of the area are.
The problem is, these so-called "common sense" assumptions are wrong as often as they are right. It is pretty easy to imagine a situation where a DM knows nothing about an area (and didn't do his homework or read the blurb in the adventure) and has all of the inhabitants of the area being antagonistic to the Orc PC, not realizing that Orcs and Humans get along in that area. Heck, there is an adventure where that is true. Being unfairly biased against specific PCs and being in violation of canon (something likely to make the game less fun for the player) is much worse than treating each PC equally and being in violation of canon.
If you want to apply local racism as a DM, do your research (there are these books that WotC sells to make this easy). If you aren't willing to do the research, then you aren't applying local racism, you are making it up, based on your personal beliefs. And that makes players feel like they are being unfairly targeted (especially when they are well versed on the local canon).
-SYB
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2009 - 11:54AM
#38
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
|
Except "common sense" isn't actually something you can really have about intercultural relations in a well-documented fantasy setting.
Sure you can. You can be wrong, but aht doesn't mean common sense doesn't exist. In genral, ie xpect an adventure to point out where common sense doesn't apply, rather than the other way around.
And sure, I do encourage people - players and DMs - to invest in the setting and learn what they can.
But I disagree that you have to let common sense go just because you haven't read through all the 2nd ed sourcebooks. In that case, you could as well switch to playing miniatures battle.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 2:03AM
#39
|
|
|
There is common sense in the game, but it is good to keep in mind that it is still a game Common sense has been let go on purpose on more then a few spots becuase it is a game and we make up the world. One of those spots happens to be the reactions of the inhabitants of the world towards all kinds of monstrous races and adventurers. Spending too much time on hostilities between the locals and the PCs distracts from the game in the already limited time you have. Not to mention that racism has some very negative connections with RL for some people. It is really best to err on the side of caution and rule in the favor of the PCs. Come to think of it, common sense dictates you should not pay too much attention to racial tension in a convention setting. It might not be common sense of the world, but it is common sense of the game
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2009 - 2:36AM
#40
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
|
So essentially, we stop playing a roleplaying game and interacting with NPCs, and instead revert to miniature battles.
|
|
|
