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4 years ago ::
Jan 23, 2009 - 11:34AM
#31
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2007
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I have sympathy... :P If you feel your character has lost the spark that made it enjoyable, then I can understand why you want to retire it. I don't care that you may have created an optimised character or that it may be considerd to be a "one trick pony"... the fact remains that you could create such a character and have it legally playable in LFR... many gamers might like to "look down their noses" at you, but that is simply gaming snobbery. Some gamers like to RP and make characters with intricate backstories, others like the tactical combats and dice rolling... it's horses for courses... neither is better than the other... it is only a game.
That's why I want to see a refund of gp... the item has been the subject of an errata... it has changed.
Those players who own this item should be given the opportunity to get their money back and then we can all move on... 
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4 years ago ::
Jan 23, 2009 - 2:12PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2007
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SYB It is in fact huge. The character that had veterans armor for me (my wizard) was built entirely from the ground up on multi sphear, he increadably ineffective without it dispite high optimization.
I'm really curious (1) how you "highly optimize" any heroic level wizard because of the lack of wizardly resources so far, (2) how you can build a character entirely around a single power, (3) how such a character can be "increadably ineffective", and (4) what the character was doing in the several levels before obtaining the (assumedly several suits of) VA he needed. Excuse my skepsis.
So can we see your stats please?
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4 years ago ::
Jan 23, 2009 - 3:12PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
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Simply put the way they deal with this will either drive away alot of players or will leave some upset players that keep playing. The reason this will be is that it sets a precident for next time, they do something (IE errat double weapons or errata blood claw, or errata spitting stance or anything) errating something and not letting people change it WILL drive players away period no exceptions.
If a player is going to leave the campaign because they did not get a full refund on an item that was formerly overpowered and is now balanced and usable by pretty much any build and class when they almost assuredly knew the item was a "a little too good", I am not so sure I consider that a loss to the campaign.
I like LFR players, especially ones that DM but, I have little tolerance for such a childish boycott over the loss of a broken combo.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 23, 2009 - 3:19PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2006
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If I had a vote on it, I'd say allow the item to be sold back at 20% as normal or be swapped for an equivalent priced item. It gives a touch more flexibility without effecting the gold curve and level picks.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 23, 2009 - 9:11PM
#35
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I'm really curious (1) how you "highly optimize" any heroic level wizard because of the lack of wizardly resources so far, (2) how you can build a character entirely around a single power, (3) how such a character can be "increadably ineffective", and (4) what the character was doing in the several levels before obtaining the (assumedly several suits of) VA he needed. Excuse my skepsis.
So can we see your stats please?
(level 4)
15 con(bumped)
21 int
11 wis
12 cha
+2 staff
hellfire blood.
my rant
Show
The goal was to up the damage on the FS as much as possible. I have no control potential save icy terrain (Which has proven weak in the control department, at best) and -2 to hit from an at will. My encounter is fire shroud in an attempt to make sure I hit.
Essentialy wizards without daily powers(taking away each classes dailies) are strictly weaker than any other class there is no class they are better than without daily powers which is why I wanted VA so that I can be better than non strikers at damage earlier. the only time I come close to RDPR vs non striker damage.
And to answer your questions in order
1) If you see above its the highest possible DPR for a wizard.
2) You build it around the premice of DPR(/RDPR) at ranged, and in this case without FS your far behind.
3) Without FS he is far behind every one else that is the same level in damage.
4) bought a VA after my 4th adventure(we played up some), bought another one a few adventures later.
The character is being retired due to the inablity to daily freqently, which he was built around. If even one activation of the VA is left (1/day) he would still be playable because he is one adventure from 5th (like 60 xp or something dumb) because cloud and FS and VA allow for all 3 combats. The current case however doesnt, I figured a nerf would come in either the form of "VA is 7+ only" or "VA has an attunement time, you must wear it for an extended rest to use its power or property."
The point is, that while FS is still good, without FS I am better off being a first level character with decent stats (Heck Im better off being any class) As they have higher surges, more defences, More HP, equal or better overall to hit (but get CA via flanking) and higher damage. Simply put, Wizards have a class feature, and its thier daily powers, I simply wanted to use my class feature more frequently as being good 1/day is bad.
I havent bought or used them on any character but this one because it fit the character, without them the character is not fun to play as you do nothing 2/3rds of the day (1/3rd if I bothered to level him)
The character concep, a HIGH DAMAGE fire teifling, is dead which is sad, because I enjoyed FS rolling around.
I would be better off with a first level character (of any class) than the above wizard, it was based around damage, and without FS it does less than other classes, and almost strictly less than some. It has weak control elements as it cant really use sleep, Icy terrain has proved weak as it rarely even denies an action, and fire shroud has 0 control. I retrained out of grasping shadows because the group complained since they got pushed into it more than they pushed opponents into it.
A wizards power, and Id go so far as to say defineing class feature, is strong daily powers. Without that I am left with horrible no control at wills( woo minus two to hit..) and weak control encounters Icy terrain, and no control encounters of fire shroud. I could retrain fireshroud to color spray, but than whats the point Im better off starting from scratch with better stats and an orb.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2009 - 12:03AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2007
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Okay.
That was interesting, but I must say I disagree with your assessment of the wizard class. I can understand if you're not willing to wait until paragon's blood mage for more damaging effects.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2009 - 12:13AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2001
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As it's been said several times before, if you specialize that much in one particular shtick, don't expect too much sympathy if that shtick gets nerfed.
I remember a mounted charge specialist back in LG. The character could pull off ungodly levels of damage if allowed to charge with a horse. Was nearly useless if no such charge was possible.
Or at least the player maintained the character was 'useless'.
Most everyone else thought there was plenty of other stuff that could have been done, but the player would just grouse and whine and sulk cos the DM or the adventure was being "unfair".
Yah, that player didn't ever get too much sympathy either. Cos she'd created a collection of numbers instead of creating, well, a character.
That's the problem with overspecialization. It's really easy to get screwed up if things change.
-karma
LFR Characters:
Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard
Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard
Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
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4 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2009 - 3:47AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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I lucked on on this one, I didn't have VA on my rogue and on my last mod I had bought an enchant magic item scroll and upgraded my leather +2 to Leather of resistance (cold) +2, during that dang mod I picked up a amulet of survival so I had 2 resist 5 cold items. So I went about deciding to sell some stuff off and take my coin to buy a new item etc.
End of next mods roll around and I don't feel like figuring it out before we report so I come home and work out how much I can sell a couple things for and how much of my gold I'd have have to spent to get Veteran's armor +2 and write it all down. like a day or 2 later the errata comes out... and so does the eraser. Yay for things not being final until you start the next mod. I guess my +2 elven cloak gets to hang out as a loaner for a while longer.
Blah blah blah
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4 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2009 - 6:02AM
#39
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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The character that had veterans armor for me (my wizard) was built entirely from the ground up on multi sphear, he increadably ineffective without it dispite high optimization.
If you have a character whose success hinges on a single magic item, I am afraid you didn't understand anything from 4th ed at all.
Which, in relation to the OP means: don't swrat over-optimizing armors. Take a cool armor if you find it. In 5 levels, you want another one anyway. Just remember that the armor doesn't make the character. It's , in the end, just an AC bonus with a useful extra property.
Gomez
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4 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2009 - 6:53AM
#40
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Okay.
That was interesting, but I must say I disagree with your assessment of the wizard class. I can understand if you're not willing to wait until paragon's blood mage for more damaging effects.
Even a blood mage (barring the interpertation of 2d6/4d10 per 2 squares) is only higher damage than leaders and weaker defenders. You deal less than tempests, rangers, rogues, barbarians warlocks and to some extent warlords (as they grant attacks)
Also as a sidebar on the wizard class. sidbar
Show
If you want to run the numbers and number of actions denied in a 3 combat/day fight I have done so on my wizard and an orbizard. Both come out to about 2-6/mod(We did it for 2 mods mine was between 3/4 his was between 4/6), assuming hit 50%, he denied 1-3 hits, this sounds nice but then you realize the warlord giving AC buffs denied more, the damage from 3 hits probably would not total over 40 damage which means that those glut of extra surges every player has would be spent and still let him have a more damaging character which will stop the damage comming in. As for the one upside of the wizard ranged DPR, sadly he doesnt out do warlock without daily powers, this was the primary reason I played it because it delt more than a warlock with daily powers and had some mediocer control (as the encounter control is a joke for the most part) without thier daily power they lose some mediocer control as well as higher damage, being left strictly worse than multipul classes. I was willing to wait till 9, but not so much when Im restricted to 1 daily/mod or in my view 1 class feature/mod. (even in one more mod 2 class feature/mod) If you have a character whose success hinges on a single magic item, I am afraid you didn't understand anything from 4th ed at all.
Which, in relation to the OP means: don't swrat over-optimizing armors. Take a cool armor if you find it. In 5 levels, you want another one anyway. Just remember that the armor doesn't make the character. It's , in the end, just an AC bonus with a useful extra property.
Gomez
4e is the most gear required edition so far, infact it perposefully makes you have an equal +ed impliment to hit, and armor to make AC matter... In 5 levels I would still have had my VAs just not worn, in 15 levels I would still have them, they would be resold at 21st or 22nd.
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