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Undone wrote:

(level 4)
15 con(bumped)
21 int
11 wis
12 cha

+2 staff
hellfire blood.
my rant Show

The goal was to up the damage on the FS as much as possible. I have no control potential save icy terrain (Which has proven weak in the control department, at best) and -2 to hit from an at will. My encounter is fire shroud in an attempt to make sure I hit.

Essentialy wizards without daily powers(taking away each classes dailies) are strictly weaker than any other class there is no class they are better than without daily powers which is why I wanted VA so that I can be better than non strikers at damage earlier. the only time I come close to RDPR vs non striker damage.

And to answer your questions in order
1) If you see above its the highest possible DPR for a wizard.
2) You build it around the premice of DPR(/RDPR) at ranged, and in this case without FS your far behind.
3) Without FS he is far behind every one else that is the same level in damage.
4) bought a VA after my 4th adventure(we played up some), bought another one a few adventures later.

The character is being retired due to the inablity to daily freqently, which he was built around. If even one activation of the VA is left (1/day) he would still be playable because he is one adventure from 5th (like 60 xp or something dumb) because cloud and FS and VA allow for all 3 combats. The current case however doesnt, I figured a nerf would come in either the form of "VA is 7+ only" or "VA has an attunement time, you must wear it for an extended rest to use its power or property."

The point is, that while FS is still good, without FS I am better off being a first level character with decent stats (Heck Im better off being any class) As they have higher surges, more defences, More HP, equal or better overall to hit (but get CA via flanking) and higher damage. Simply put, Wizards have a class feature, and its thier daily powers, I simply wanted to use my class feature more frequently as being good 1/day is bad.

I havent bought or used them on any character but this one because it fit the character, without them the character is not fun to play as you do nothing 2/3rds of the day (1/3rd if I bothered to level him)

The character concep, a HIGH DAMAGE fire teifling, is dead which is sad, because I enjoyed FS rolling around.

I would be better off with a first level character (of any class) than the above wizard, it was based around damage, and without FS it does less than other classes, and almost strictly less than some. It has weak control elements as it cant really use sleep, Icy terrain has proved weak as it rarely even denies an action, and fire shroud has 0 control. I retrained out of grasping shadows because the group complained since they got pushed into it more than they pushed opponents into it.

A wizards power, and Id go so far as to say defineing class feature, is strong daily powers. Without that I am left with horrible no control at wills( woo minus two to hit..) and weak control encounters Icy terrain, and no control encounters of fire shroud. I could retrain fireshroud to color spray, but than whats the point Im better off starting from scratch with better stats and an orb.

I read the rant. I agree that for 2 out 3 combats a day you deal less damage than a striker. And, for one combat a day you make every striker feel worthless while simultaneously having massive control.

Basically, you are upset because you are no longer stealing the spotlight in every combat. That is a sad message to the community. The fact that you can basically assuredly steal the spotlight in 1/3rd of combats is better than most characters can do. And, all you would need to do is play one adventure (just one) to be able to steal the spotlight in 2/3rd of the combats.

It isn't like you are worthless in the last combat. You have an at-will that does 1d6+8 damage to everyone in an area burst 1 or an at-will that does 1d6+7 damage to a single target and gives them a -2 to attacks (your fighter and strikers will be thankful every time). And you have an encounter power that is friend-or-foe and deals ongoing damage (sweet).

So, in short, you pack a solid amount of area power that can't be easily ignored, with a very solid attack bonus (+10 for your fire powers) AND you basically dominate fights once per day (twice per day if you played in one adventure). Just about no other class has a daily that dominates fights at this tier (paragon tier is another story).

This is supposed to be a fun experience for all players, not just an opportunity for you to show off and dominate the other players at the table. Your character brings a lot to combat, and if played with consideration to the fun of other players, would be a great addition to any table. It is sad that you immediately write it off because it is no longer the strongest character in EVERY fight.

-SYB

gomeztoo wrote:

4th ed was designed so that magical pluses to hit (on a weapon or implement) were calculated in the system, with the assumption that you would have such items at the proper level.

The designers have said several times though that it is not set up in such a way that PCs are defined by their magic items.

These two sentences appear to contradict.

As it's been said several times before, if you specialize that much in one particular shtick, don't expect too much sympathy if that shtick gets nerfed.

I understand your point, but Im looking at the situation from a more even perspective, as mentioned before the only relivance is that the items fundamental stats were changed AFTER it was allowed to be chosen as a slot or purchased, It simply is not fair fo the RPGA to exect for us players to suffer with an errated item when its fundemental stats have changed, I view this as the same as if i had a chance to pick up a +2 Item and it was changed to a +1, the fact that this item in question was abusable as written is irrelivant to the situation at hand, what is relivant is that Wizards has decided to change thier mind on how the item is used, in reaction to that as players we should be allowed teh same benefit to change our minds that we wanted to pick a different item or get our gold back. The reason im so against rpga "stiffing" the players with this errata item is not because i or anyone else abuses the power, but that if they "stiff" us with this errata whata about an errata down the road that isnt used abusively? I'm simply trying to protect this from effecting future errata issues regardless in what they are.