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4 years ago ::
Jan 11, 2009 - 10:33AM
#51
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
- Dragon Slayer
- D&DI News Guide
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2005
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The coolest thing about D&D, to me, is interacting with a reactive world, watching it change as a result of my actions. It's also one of the biggest selling points of a Living Campaign.
I also understand Wizard's desire to maintain tight control of their brand, since it's an active brand.
It seems to me, though, that the two things are mutually exclusive. Control over how the world evolves belongs to one group or the other. It's possible Wizards' plan is to base future products off the evolution of the Living Campaign storyline, but I find it much more likely that the reverse is true. This takes away a lot of the draw of the game, for me. Actually, with the release of 4E we've been told that Living Forgotten Realms is now canonical - just like the novels. This opens up some intersting options. It means that based on the performance of PCs, events from LFR might find their way into the novels. It means that events in the novels might open up paths for future adventures for LFR.
Instead of being in a separate "reflection" of the Realms we're shaping the Realms as we go. Mind, we haven't had the opportunity to stir up world-altering events yet, but that time may yet still come.
Three months between adventures in a particular storyline is just too long for people to remember what's going on, I think. In two years I'll be able to go back and play all the Tymanther mods back-to-back, I guess, but I don't think that really cuts it.
I've heard it mentioned that mods are selected through 2010. That means the decisions our characters are making today will affect the world not tomorrow, but in two years. That seems like an awful long disconnect between character action and environmental reaction, to me. People's attention spans aren't that long, particularly newcomers to the game. If the SUPPLY of modules is so rich, the Fair Market Price Shawn mentioned should (eventually) come down, and Wizards should be able to purchase more. Theoretically. Really, though, Fair Market Price should be way lower, given that the suppliers (authors) are willing to pretty much volunteer, right? It depends. I haven't heard it said that mods are selected from now to 2010, but let's assume that's true.
That could still mean that what's been selected is the "final version" of a module - but rather a module concept - an outline, if you will. It might be as simple as "The players go into the Shadowfell to pickup a MacGuffin opposed by . Average results from 1-1, 1-2, and 1-3 will affect the flavor of this module".
This would mean that 3-6 months after a module's premier the Admins are collating the results and using that to "steer" future mods - while still keeping a general plot outline.
As for the costs being paid I believe one of the Global Admins said that part of the reason for purchasing mods is to help protect the IP rights of the Forgotten Realms at the suggestion from WotC/Hasbro Legal. I can't speak to the veracity of this statement, but it would seem to fit the situation.
Another facet that makes it difficult to engage players in particular storylines is that, by retirement, my character will most likely have played a total of nine Tymanther mods. You can't really develop just all that much in nine adventures.
I hope Wizards will eventually refine its model to make us happy customers, but it takes financial stimulus to get a corporation to act, and, since it doesn't directly make anything off of LFR, we probably won't ever be able to provide that stimulus. Well, in an organized play environment, what the players want is typically taken under advisement. In addition to posting here, I'd try to contact your Regional point-of-contact with your concerns - just to make sure your comments are being heard by the administration, and run up the chain accordingly.
Wolf Star76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide  Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 6:58AM
#52
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2008
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Actually, with the release of 4E we've been told that Living Forgotten Realms is now canonical - just like the novels. This opens up some intersting options. It means that based on the performance of PCs, events from LFR might find their way into the novels. It means that events in the novels might open up paths for future adventures for LFR.
Instead of being in a separate "reflection" of the Realms we're shaping the Realms as we go. Mind, we haven't had the opportunity to stir up world-altering events yet, but that time may yet still come. I think making LFR canonical is part of the problem. Wizards wants to retain tight control of canon for their major brand, and rightly so. That means WE will be tightly limited in the amount of "shaping as we go" that will be allowed. We can shape as we go only as long as we shape things the way Wizards wants them shaped.
As for the costs being paid I believe one of the Global Admins said that part of the reason for purchasing mods is to help protect the IP rights of the Forgotten Realms at the suggestion from WotC/Hasbro Legal. I can't speak to the veracity of this statement, but it would seem to fit the situation. Yeah, I read and understand that. They want to pay for any mods they put out, at Fair Market Price, so as to make it WotC property. This payment means that more mods=more budget outlay. My point was that it seems like there is a pretty ready supply of modules, and, according to economics, when supply is great, Fair Market Price goes down, which might (perhaps) allow for purchasing of more mods at the same cost to WotC.
Really, the best thing I can think of to do is to have (say) four major storylines that transcend regions. Instead of just having one arc per region, where we get to play in a particular storyline once every three months, have a storyline where three or four mods from each "wave" can tie in, even if only tangentially. That way people can see at least a tie-in roughly once a month. In the Weekend kit, the questionnaire asked about which threat we wanted to see more of. I say use all four or five and scatter them throughout the different mods. If a few mods in each wave have even a LITTLE something to do with the Abolethic Sovreignty and a few pertain to the Snake Kingdoms (or whatever), people will feel a lot more connection between them and more of a purpose in their wanderings.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 7:10AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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We can shape as we go only as long as we shape things the way Wizards wants them shaped. This is true to a point, but we are working toward creating situations where the happenings in the campaign can shape FR. It is certainly not going to be the "Wild West" where anything goes, but hopefully we will get to the point where the players of the campaign shape not only the campaign itself, but the world itself.
My point was that it seems like there is a pretty ready supply of modules, and, according to economics, when supply is great, Fair Market Price goes down, which might (perhaps) allow for purchasing of more mods at the same cost to WotC. Fair market price goes beyond just WotC. We are talking about fair market price for RPG adventures, and for the publishing world in general.
Shawn
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 7:53AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2008
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I know you guys are working on it, and I have faith in you. I'm not trying to complain (too much). What about paragraph 3? That was the "important" stuff.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 8:13AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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What about paragraph 3? That was the "important" stuff.  Heh. Yeah. I know I sound like a broken record, but it is all in the works. We have regions in talks to create a cross/multi-regional series that would premiere consecutively, giving people the ability to run them one after another to create an instant and fully playable plot arc. We are talking about doing the same thing with Cores and regionals. The players have shared great ideas, some we have been working on since we first met with Chris at DDXP a year ago, and some that are just germinating now.
Shawn LFR Global Admin
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 8:14AM
#56
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
- Dragon Slayer
- D&DI News Guide
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2005
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I think making LFR canonical is part of the problem. Wizards wants to retain tight control of canon for their major brand, and rightly so. That means WE will be tightly limited in the amount of "shaping as we go" that will be allowed. We can shape as we go only as long as we shape things the way Wizards wants them shaped. That's one side of the coin.
Let me show you the flipside.
It's possible (I'll leave plausibility to another discussion) that WotC will decide to do a major upheaval to and if play numbers remain high for LFR, instead of doing it through a book first, we might well get the first rumblings of those changes in LFR.
Let's say WotC decides to kill off the Zhentarim - or at the very least is open to the idea. Traditionally, this would only happen via characters we read about in books. Now, with LFR being canonical - WE could well hold the power to tear apart the organization once and for all.
Now, that still requires the alignment of a lot of stars - including WotC (almost certainly) coming up with the idea themselves first (I can't imagine they'd approve a mod or series of mods with that theme if it came from outside the company), and then watching the developing storyline. However, the option is there. 
Yeah, I read and understand that. They want to pay for any mods they put out, at Fair Market Price, so as to make it WotC property. This payment means that more mods=more budget outlay. My point was that it seems like there is a pretty ready supply of modules, and, according to economics, when supply is great, Fair Market Price goes down, which might (perhaps) allow for purchasing of more mods at the same cost to WotC.
Really, the best thing I can think of to do is to have (say) four major storylines that transcend regions. Instead of just having one arc per region, where we get to play in a particular storyline once every three months, have a storyline where three or four mods from each "wave" can tie in, even if only tangentially. That way people can see at least a tie-in roughly once a month. In the Weekend kit, the questionnaire asked about which threat we wanted to see more of. I say use all four or five and scatter them throughout the different mods. If a few mods in each wave have even a LITTLE something to do with the Abolethic Sovreignty and a few pertain to the Snake Kingdoms (or whatever), people will feel a lot more connection between them and more of a purpose in their wanderings. I like this idea - it would be a challenge, perhaps, to implement so that if it doesn't matter if I play "region B" before "region A" but still - I like the concept.
Wolf Star76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide  Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 8:18AM
#57
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2008
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Cool. I figured something like that was the case, since I'm sure you guys are as hip to what's happenin' as I am, but I hadn't seen anything to that effect yet. Thanks for playing it again for me, S(a)M.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 9:21AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2005
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I like this idea - it would be a challenge, perhaps, to implement so that if it doesn't matter if I play "region B" before "region A" but still - I like the concept. ...or just suck it up and say that the module from region A is a prerequisite for playing the module from region B. "You must possess story award REGA01 to play this module." Conceivably a pain to get a group together for and even more of a pain to enforce, but it would make true story progression possible (it can have a definitive beginning and end). It's rather difficult to write a story arc across three or four adventures when the story arc has to be playable in any order. I'm pretty sure that last just described the existing quest card/module system, which isn't so much a story arc as "Do these random tasks that mean little to nothing to you now. Wait a year. Now play this module."
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 9:36AM
#59
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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Chained mods pretty much sum up Weekend in the Realms... which IIRC they are planning on doign again. So from that perspective... we already have that type of "Interactive."
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 9:39AM
#60
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2008
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I think I would try to stay away from specific order requirements within a particular wave, if at all possible. Such requirements would almost certainly limit play opportunites, something Wizards really doesn't want to do.
The story wouldn't even need to be central to the regional mods in question. Just a little tie-in somehow. Maybe the AS is behind the goings-on at the Foot of the Lighthouse, or what have you. All it takes is one (preferably slightly cryptic) note from an AS agent (whose name has come up in another mod or two) in the last guy's belongings revealing a little more of the major plot. After playing the three or four "AS" mods in the current wave and gathering a few of these clues, the player would ideally be able to put some clues together and get some insight into what going on with the "behind-the-scenes" story.
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