|
5 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2008 - 2:19PM
#21
|
Date Joined:
Jan 26, 2005
|
All sarcasm aside, it makes absolutely no sense why the stat block entries for potions would be purchase price and the stat block entries for Alchemical items would not be when the stat bock formats are standardized. They are published in the exact same format with the exact same magic item stat block. Bizaar of the Bizarre articles in Dragon don't explicitly say that the costs in the stat blocks are purchase price and not component cost. Does that mean we can't purchase them?
I went back and looked through the old Dragon artcles and none of them mention anything about purchase prices on any of the items listed in the magazine. besides, the area of the PHB you are talking about (starting on page 224) is telling you how to read an item's stat block. So what you're saying, is that it applies to any items stat block except for alchemical items. That's just fishing for a reason to disallow it.
Those are all magical items.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2008 - 3:02PM
#22
|
Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
|
Those are all magical items.
oh, good lord. 
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2008 - 3:15PM
#23
|
Date Joined:
May 26, 2008
|
Again:
The character builder permits you to purchase alchemical items at the listed price that everyone is telling you.
If they were not intended to be purchasable at that price I very highly doubt that they would be in the character builder, purchasable, at that price.
Do you have any argument that does not amount to "it does not explicitly say that you can do it so you can't"? The rules don't need to be explicit, as the intention is implicit and there's plenty of evidence demonstrating that that intention was to have alchemical items available for purchase, from them using the same format as other similar items which are verifiably purchasable, to the fact that they are listed as purchasable in the character builder.
There is no reason whatsoever to assume that they can't be purchased individually and every indication that they can.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2008 - 3:22PM
#24
|
Date Joined:
Jan 26, 2005
|
Again:
The character builder permits you to purchase alchemical items at the listed price that everyone is telling you.
If they were not intended to be purchasable at that price I very highly doubt that they would be in the character builder, purchasable, at that price.
Do you have any argument that does not amount to "it does not explicitly say that you can do it so you can't"? The rules don't need to be explicit, as the intention is implicit and there's plenty of evidence demonstrating that that intention was to have alchemical items available for purchase, from them using the same format as other similar items which are verifiably purchasable, to the fact that they are listed as purchasable in the character builder.
There is no reason whatsoever to assume that they can't be purchased individually and every indication that they can.
The character builder is not an official rules source.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2008 - 4:17PM
#25
|
Date Joined:
May 23, 2005
|
Why do you guys continue to feed the troll?
Unless you agree that everything they say is right they will continue to post and post. There is no other correct answer other than theirs. Let them play the game how they see fit. We know it wouldnt fly if they were a GM at a major convention etc. The Senior GM would overrule them or remove them etc. Let the troll go back under the bridge.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2008 - 8:32PM
#26
|
Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
|
Because it's been a slow day and it's fun? :P
Those are all magical items.
So what. Same stat block, same standardized format. Every other craftable item in 4e has it's component and purchase price exactly the same. You're going to have to come up with a better reason than that.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2008 - 10:19PM
#27
|
Date Joined:
Jan 26, 2005
|
Because it's been a slow day and it's fun? :P
So what. Same stat block, same standardized format. Every other craftable item in 4e has it's component and purchase price exactly the same. You're going to have to come up with a better reason than that.
Every other craftable item in 4e is magical. Alchemical items are different from magical items.
Clearly, strict adherence to RAW is being a troll. Thanks.
Until the CCG says that you can purchase alchemical items without DM Fiat, I maintain that in LFR, at least, it's not possible to buy them.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2008 - 11:53PM
#28
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
Every other craftable item in 4e is magical. Alchemical items are different from magical items.
Clearly, strict adherence to RAW is being a troll. Thanks.
Until the CCG says that you can purchase alchemical items without DM Fiat, I maintain that in LFR, at least, it's not possible to buy them.
No, stubborn insistence that consistency is not in RAW, when it cklearly is, is acting the troll. Your arguments have been going so far as to being stubborn restatements of the same, inaccurate, beliefs.
RAW: Alchemy follows the same rules and setup as both rituals and potions. Indeed, alchemical substancfes have been explicitly likened to non-magical potions. Stating that they are "different" is both incorrect and blindly obstinate.
And, FYI, if you actually READ the CCG, you might notice that ALL of the AV is OPEN content, meaning that anything in AV is available for purchase/use.
Do you also insist that using masterwork armor costs more than non-masterwork armor of the same magical enhancement?
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Dec 16, 2008 - 2:25AM
#29
|
Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
|
I woudl have prefered if Alchemy items worked like rituals. That is purchase price be ritual plus components. It would make sense from an economics point of view.
As it is, component cost seems to be marketing cost. That does not make any sense at all, as alchemists will LOOSE money. So who is making the alchemy items in this world? My characters sure won't.
The Alchemy feat is not merely useless now, it costs you money. It has no benefits whatsoever, only negative effects, because making items are more expensive than just buying them.
It is, seriously, the dumbest feat ever.
Gomez
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Dec 16, 2008 - 4:45AM
#30
|
Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2007
|
The LFR admins engaged in a similar debate but then asked WotC. Yes, you can buy alchemical items for the component cost in LFR. Yes, WotC thought gamers would understand that it was just like magic items. In a home campaign, the DM could consider rarity of available items and tack on an additional cost, making the feat worthwhile. Rarity is hard to deal with in a Living campaign, and, for whatever reason, they did not direct a cost bump.
Certainly part of the reason is they do not want PCs to make money via some craft; the job of PCs is to go on adventures.
Keith
Keith Hoffman
LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
|
|
|
