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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 10:12AM #1
Kurald_Galain
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2007
Posts: 1,628
As I recall, in the 3.5 Living campaigns, a number of feats/spells/etc were banned because they were considered too cheesy or overpowered.

I was wondering if any such bans will be, or are expected to be, made for 4E living Forgotten Realms? E.g. banning certain items from the Adventurers Vault that penalize saving throws, to prevent an orb wizard from giving out a -12 saving throw penalty.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 10:33AM #2
smerwin29
  • LFR Global Admin
Date Joined: Jun 18, 2003
Posts: 826
The LFR campaign staff does not have the power to ban items. We will certainly point out rules that might be in need of errata, and hopefully any rules that are open to abuse will be changed at the very top (the core rules).

Thanks,

Shawn
LFR Global Admin
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 11:43AM #3
Dragon9
  • Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 4,997
Well, Artifacts are already banned... and anything requiring DM Adjudication.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials.  So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy.  Can we just get back to real 4e?

Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki.

1. Wizards fight dirty.  They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9
2. A barbarian hits people with his axe.  A warlord hits people with his barbarian.
3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 5:30PM #4
WolfStar76
  • Senior Volunteer Community Lead
  • Dragon Slayer
  • D&DI News Guide
Date Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 5,322
I expect that the CCG will always be the go-to source for what's permitted/disallowed for the campaign.

As such, unless/until you see something forboden in there, as long as it comes from a player resource or you have campaign documentation to back it up - it's fair game.
WolfStar76
Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN
LFR Community Manager
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 6:08PM #5
aljergensen
Date Joined: Feb 9, 2005
Posts: 406
I for one am glad that I don't have to cross-reference pages of documentation when figuring out my character. D&D is what it is ... I like playing the game as written warts and all.

Allen.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 2:05AM #6
Mind_Flayer_Monk
Date Joined: Dec 5, 2005
Posts: 658

Kurald_Galain wrote:

As I recall, in the 3.5 Living campaigns, a number of feats/spells/etc were banned because they were considered too cheesy or overpowered.

I was wondering if any such bans will be, or are expected to be, made for 4E living Forgotten Realms? E.g. banning certain items from the Adventurers Vault that penalize saving throws, to prevent an orb wizard from giving out a -12 saving throw penalty.


Doesn't look like it. The Battlerager-Warforged-Reparation Apparatus is here to stay.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 7:29AM #7
dkay807
Date Joined: Feb 7, 2007
Posts: 1,114

Mind Flayer Monk wrote:

Doesn't look like it. The Battlerager-Warforged-Reparation Apparatus is here to stay.


Reparation Apparatus doesn't work with Battlerager Vigor temporary hit points. You only add the 2d6 if you use a power that grants temporary hit points. Temporary hit points gained by the Battlerager Vigor class feature are gained via a feature, not the use of a power.

However, the item does work nicely with various utility and encounter powers out there, as well as Invigorating powers. Although, it's benefits will trail off over time, as the 2d6 doesn't scale while your HP and damage taken do.

Dave Kay
LFR Writing Director Retiree
dkay807 [at] yahoo [dot] com
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 8:20AM #8
bgibbons
Date Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Posts: 1,674

Kurald_Galain wrote:

As I recall, in the 3.5 Living campaigns, a number of feats/spells/etc were banned because they were considered too cheesy or overpowered.

I was wondering if any such bans will be, or are expected to be, made for 4E living Forgotten Realms?


WOTC's philosophy appears to be that if a single rules item (i.e., power, feat, magic item, etc.) is unbalanced, or some rules system creates a subtle imbalance, those need to be corrected. However, if a combination of rules items cause a blatant imbalance, that's not really a problem, because DMs always have the power to make house rules and decide that, say, two powers don't synergize the way a player wants them to or a magic item isn't available to the player. The thinking appears to be that the more obvious the imbalance, the less the need to fix it, because no competent DM would allow such an obvious problem in their campaign.

This philosophy meshes poorly with a Living campaign, where the general assumption is that DMs will play by the RAW, even if they disagree with the end result.

Because of this, every successful Living campaign has made changes to the core rules, on the basis that the campaign staff were acting as DMs for the campaign and thus able to make house rules.

The LFR philosophy, which appears to have been forced by WOTC, is that campaign staff aren't the DMs of the campaign, but more facilitators for the actual DM, whoever happens to be running the module that day.

As a result, campaign staff is hamstrung, unable to do anything but mechanically tell you that the core rules are good, Dragon Magazine is good, everything that WOTC puts out is good and suitable for use in the campaign. At this point, the farthest that campaign staff appear able to go is to restrict things (like character backgrounds) for campaign flavor reasons. Inasmuch as a warforged who is a Battlelord of Kord is legal, however, that clearly doesn't extend very far.

Of course, the other implication of the newRPGA philosophy is that the DM at the table is actually a DM--as far as I can tell, if you as a DM decide that some combination of powers works better together than intended, you're free to declare by DM fiat that it just doesn't work that way at your table. For that matter, in discussions about Blade Cascade before errata came out, some campaign staff were implying that a DM could just house rule away the plain meaning of a single power if they thought the plain meaning was against the Rules as the DM thought were Intended.

So, the answer is: No, campaign staff are barred from ever implying that something that WOTC puts out is not suitable for use in the campaign. However, if you as DM personally and strongly don't like something, you can probably (either through inherent DM powers or DME) declare it anathema at your table.

-- Brian Gibbons.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 8:44AM #9
Dragon9
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Date Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 4,997
Although so far I haven't seen anything that is blatantly overpowered. I have seen strong combos for sure, but they are usually good 1/day and/or are extremely situational. In such a case, I don't consider it overpowered. If they are able to doit every round on every attack (like the good ol' 3.X days) the I woudl considerit overpowered/unbalanced.

That's not to say that such a thing could crop up in future supplements, but I think the structure of 4e lends itself to keeping such combos from becoming overwhelming like they did in the previous edition.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials.  So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy.  Can we just get back to real 4e?

Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki.

1. Wizards fight dirty.  They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9
2. A barbarian hits people with his axe.  A warlord hits people with his barbarian.
3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 17, 2009 - 8:40PM #10
just_be_glad_now
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 68
Dragon9 said

Although so far I haven't seen anything that is blatantly overpowered. I have seen strong combos for sure, but they are usually good 1/day and/or are extremely situational


While not providing the snarky response I'd like to this statement, I will nevertheless respond.

Because Wizards has been (dare I say) months late with the updated errata, there are some blatant problems that seem to pop up every single module. One noticable one is people pulling out spare sets of Veteran's armor in order to cast a daily or more every combat. There are some items problematic in combination in Adventurer's Vault as well, but they don't really show up until late heroic, so we'll start hearing about them soon.

A couple of the paragon classes released recently have issues too, although nothing as bad as the items, really. If Wizards finishes up the errata soon, we may well see a situation were there is nothing blatently broken, but they seem to prefer to produce lots of subpar products rather than slightly fewer good products. A shame, really.

Brayden Glad

Dealing with WotC customer service is like milking an emu...

You might get scratched, bitten or kicked, or might simply be ignored, but you won't be successful...

and people will think you odd for trying.
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