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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 6:12AM
#1
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How secretive should players be about their characters when playing an LFR module? And should it be allowed for players to be very secretive about their character race, class and level. Below is an experience of mine and I would like to know what your opinions about it are.
The other day I was playing a LFR game in the local gamming store. While the DM was setting up he had us all introduce ourselves. With the exception of one player we informed the table of our name, race, class, level and a little bio of our characters. The one player refused to tell the group his race, class or level and instead handed a note to the DM, he did give his name and an extremely weak description of his character. The only reason we knew he was a striker was because the gaming master asked everyone their character type to divide the people up into two groups, there where enough people for two tables.
I have a bit of a problem with a player not informing the group about the basics of their character, which in my opinion, are name, race, class and level. What I found to be the major issue with the player being so secretive was when deciding if we should play up or down level. Since he gave no information about his character it was hard to go against him when he said lets play down level (it was a 1-4 mod). The battle encounters in the mod turned out to be far too easy and boring. And I believe the decision to play down level was the cause.
Aside from the up or down level issue I found the secretive nature of the other player an unnecessary distraction. These are pickup games and the challenge is not figuring out what the other characters at the table can do but getting through a challenging module and winning. In my opinion overcoming difficult challenges is where the fun is.
I would like to see more RPG in when playing the modules but it should be brought out in how the character reacts to a situation not how little information the other players know about the characters at the table.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 6:38AM
#2
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While I agree that secretive players can be annoying and often try to "steal the spotlight," everyone has fun in their own ways and if a player wants to be secretive, that's entirely his prerogative, as long as he provides sufficient information to the DM.
It seems to me that your "playing down" issue with the player had nothing to do with his secretive nature - that's a group decision and if he pressed you guys to play down, you probably should have worked harder to find out the reason, or simply have had him outvoted and played up anyway.
For the record, players that try to hide information about their PCs from the other players at the table annoy me to no end. However, I don't think it's my place to tell them how to play the game - I just ignore them as much as possible at the table.
Dave Kay
LFR Writing Director Retiree
dkay807 [at] yahoo [dot] com
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 6:43AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2008
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Interesting. I just read through the player responsabilities in the RPGA guidlines section. It says that players must behave in a respectful and sporting manner at all times. Then the other rule is that you cannot argue with the session GM or any other officials within the club. So as far as I can tell there is nothing you can do about this unless your session GM finds fault with this. With loose wording like respectful and sporting it would be up to the GM to adjudicate if these secrative actions would apply as transgressions. Hope that helps!
Christopher M O'Neill
1202-812-947
Player of:
Thomas 5th lvl Windsoul swordmage
Ahkros Thorfin 1st lvl Human Cleric
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 7:18AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2008
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While I can see situations that a player would want to keep his race a secret (such as a drow or orc) for roleplaying purposes, I can't see a good reason to hide one's class or level. Personally, I would disclose the player's information to the table but rule that a player cannot act on it unless their passive perception exceeds the secretive character's passive bluff. I think it is arrogant of a player to assume that he can bluff everyone's character at the table because he's special; especially if it is not covered in his skill set (i.e. no bluff skill - seen that).
In a Living campaign event, you have to metagame the part where you decide what tier (high or low) you decide to play period. Hiding key information is unfair to the other players at the table and that goes against the spirit of the campaign.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 7:50AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2006
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If someone wants to be secretive then let them. It's unfortunate that we as players can not worship evil gods as I would -so- make my cleric of Bane, and thus need to be secretive as well...however...we can't.
As far as the "play up vs play down" is concerned...
I feel the DM of the mod should have the final say if there is indecision in a group. They know wether the group will live or not based of their decision to play up or down. Usually if a group has mostly 1st level characters with a few 2nd thrown in then they should probably play down, however once you start mixing 3rd level characters in a group like that then playing up seems to be the best option.
...in my opinion anyway...
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 8:02AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2007
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If someone wants to be secretive then let them. It's unfortunate that we as players can not worship evil gods as I would -so- make my cleric of Bane, and thus need to be secretive as well...however...we can't.
It is obvious why in a living campaign we cannot play evil PCs.
1. The asusmption of heroism is required for campaign staff to make even the most basic plothooks work.
2. The assumption of a shared goal (heroics) is required for a party that is not used to each other to be willing to play in the random table selection of a living campaign.
3. Evil acts may offend other players and cause issues at the table, as one PC's fun is at the expense of another.
4. Many pressure groups would cause problems for the campaign if it encouraged the roleplaying of evil acts, regardless of how 'make-beleive' it is.
5. This game is played by KIDS. It needs to be acceptable to most audiences.
As to being secretive, if a PC doesn't reveal what they bring to the party (I don't care what class they are, I care what they offer) than they deserve any alienation, or lack of attention they receive from the rest of the party. If they don't help out in what is clearly a TEAM game, than I will make it clear that they are not helping their case for further gaming with my PCs.
Hide your character concept/past all you want, but if you refuse to cooperate with the party, don't be surprised if they ignore the rude hooded stranger as a random NPC and go off adventuring without him!
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 8:14AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2004
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Most of my characters would simply refuse to partner up with someone who won't tell them anything about themselves. If they don't tell me what benefit they bring to the table, I presume there is no benefit. And where there is no benefit, there is risk.
Adventuring can be dangerous work. You have to know that you can trust those with whom you keep company and that they'll work together as a TEAM (obvious emphasis in 4e). If they can't even tell me their name? Bah... I'd leave them at the Inn where we met.
OOC: If that means that I need to leave the table, so be it. I can suspend certain preferences (like thinking Warforged is antithetical to fantasy roleplaying), but I can't condone wasting 4+ hours of play with someone like that. *shrug*
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 8:45AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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There can be good reason for PCs to be secretive. I'm actually rather annoyed at all the 'monster' PCs I've seen that make no effort at disguise or stealth but walk around town as if nothing is going to happen to them. (Just because nothing *is*, other than the adventure -- but the monster PC doesn't know that.)
But since 4e in particular is a team game, it's only fair for the *players* to know what they're dealing with. The *player* ought to be up front and let everyone know he's playing a Drow warlock (or whatever) even though the *character* is introduced as "A heavily robed and hooded individual, wearing leather gloves, sits down at the corner table away from the light."
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 8:58AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2004
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From a *character* perspective though, if that "cloaked figure" won't tell them "I can heal you in combat" or "I'm always ready to get into a flank and stick a dagger into a foe" or... "You can call me Jack". Sheesh - ANYTHING...
From a *character* perspective, why would I want to trust you? Why would I submit to joining with you on an adventure? If I know absolutely nothing about you other than you wear a brown cloak - I'm not travelling with you.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 9:15AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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This is a subjective matter. Other people will feel differently than I do, and there are no rules really to consider beyond vague things like "respect" and a "sporting manner".
I would consider the following information to be "required" for other players at the table: Name (or at least a pseudonym), level, role, and physical description (including a version for someone with very high Perception/Insight skills).
I would consider the following infomation to be "nice to know" for the other players: race, class, chosen class features.
I've played with a person who never told anyone (in LG) what his class was, or even what spells/abilities he was using (beyond the effects). It worked out perfectly fine. I haven't played with him in 4E yet, but I'd assume that he's gonna change the names of his abilities (without altering anything below the title line in the power description) and provide as little information as possible.
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